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Price is set at the margin with fewer females dating the remaining set the price. I think the core part of the problem is that women do not seem to know the act

Price is set at the margin with fewer females dating the remaining set the price. I think the core part of the problem is that women do not seem to know the actual distribution of men and what should be the expected likelihood of desired attributes. This is most obvious when they sincerely pick attributes which they believe to be the median range but are in fact only in the >90% of men. I think this is the predominant reason why fewer women are at the price setting margin. There is little attention paid to the negative consequences of this overestimation - possibly because few people pay attention to older women who have paid those consequences and older women have no incentive to inform younger women as quite often they are still in competition with them. Trying to educate young women that they really should realistic about their prospects is not going to be popular. In general men appear to already have an accurate estimate of the distribution of attributes. I think the proportion of the difference is demonstrated by the attributes that men and women covet and the difficulty in achieving those attributes. For example losing weight is far easier than growing taler.

namaria 2y ago
Women have no obligation to date or pair up. Why is it a problem if a lot of women's standards are too high for the majority of men and they decide to not date? It's well within their right to be single.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  It's well within their right to be single, but don't complain if you want to be in a relationship and "can't find a good man" Men aren't obligated to meet some unreasonable set of standards either For this stuff to work, people need to meet each other in the middle somewhere
- chongli 2y ago
  It’s not about obligation, it’s about loneliness. That was the start of this whole thread. Women with unrealistic expectations creating the conditions for their own loneliness. I don’t think it’s entirely their fault though, as others in the thread seem to imply. The rise in expectations seems to closely match the rise of mass (and later social) media. Simply put, women and girls are exposed to all kinds of images and stories about attractive and high status men. Along with that we have dating apps that seem to reinforce this illusion of abundance. So then we should not be surprised at all that it’s so common for women to have an unrealistic picture of their prospects.
  - namaria 2y ago
    > Women with unrealistic expectations creating the conditions for their own loneliness. Replace that with 'solitude' and the article pretty much explains why that is a non-issue. Women deciding they are better off alone is not a problem. Accusing them of being unhappy and then purporting to explain why is pretty weird. If there are psychological issues with people being lonely, coming to the conclusion that they should date more and if they can't it's "women's fault" is kinda flabbergasting. The social fabric isn't made of romantic pairs, and that's definitely not women's collective responsibility.
    - chongli 2y ago
      I’m not accusing anyone of being unhappy. I am believing people when they say they are unhappy. Furthermore I said specifically that it’s not women’s fault.
      - namaria 2y ago
        > it’s so common for women to have an unrealistic picture of their prospects You kinda did. > I am believing people when they say they are unhappy. Who are these unhappy women that need to lower their standards to be happy? I see two different problems: people seem to be lonely because the social fabric is being corroded away; and some people seem to think that the issue is somehow related with too many single women.
        chongli 2y ago
        Please don’t quote me out of context. The full quote is: So then we should not be surprised at all that it’s so common for women to have an unrealistic picture of their prospects. I was talking about the mechanisms for why women would have an unrealistic picture of their prospects. Much has been written about the unrealistic expectations of men which have been driven by mass media. It’s only fair to talk about the other side of the issue which has been largely ignored, by comparison. But it’s not only the issue of expectations for dating. Young girls especially have been taught to have unrealistic expectations for their own appearance which has been driven by a ruthless set of social media algorithms that foster unhealthy comparisons (with celebrity influencers) across the entire internet. Anyway, if you want to see what should be more realistic expectations, look at pictures of families from a hundred years ago or more. What will you see? Plain and ordinary people living simple lives. Nowadays people are taught to look at such lifestyles with revulsion. Instead, they live their lonely consumerist lifestyles in their tiny apartments. You asked who all these lonely women are? They’re the friends of that guy’s wife from earlier in the thread. There are countless more women in the same situation.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  My point was the skewed perception can lead to suboptimal decision making for women who don’t want to be single. It’s a non issue for women who do want to be single.
- lynx23 2y ago
  Sure, but women have the "biological clock", and many of them realize they have set their expectations too high when the clock is actually running out, which then turns into a disaster/depression for them. Men don't care when they start a family. If women miss the window, and thats also why the statistic was looking at women between 20-44, they are basically done with the dream of having a child. And yeah, I am fully on your side, voluntary singles should just be left alone and allowed to be happy. However, the "I am happy as a single" is more like a coping mechanism then a real stance, at least several stories confirm that...
lizard 2y ago
Physical attributes are easy to recognize, so if these weigh heavily in your expectations, you can more rapidly estimate the distribution. Being able to do this quickly also means you can break out populations to make more accurate estimates of your current environment; i.e. while the media bombards us with beautiful celebrities, you can maintain an independent estimation of your actual dating pool. Social attributes take more time. You need to spend time with someone to understand where they are, and you would need to spend time with a lot of people to understand the distribution. You can try to use heuristics, like being in a relationship with someone you believe has similar expectations, but as noted those aren't actually very accurate.

namaria 2y ago

Women have no obligation to date or pair up. Why is it a problem if a lot of women's standards are too high for the majority of men and they decide to not date? It's well within their right to be single.

bluefirebrand 2y ago
It's well within their right to be single, but don't complain if you want to be in a relationship and "can't find a good man" Men aren't obligated to meet some unreasonable set of standards either For this stuff to work, people need to meet each other in the middle somewhere
chongli 2y ago
It’s not about obligation, it’s about loneliness. That was the start of this whole thread. Women with unrealistic expectations creating the conditions for their own loneliness. I don’t think it’s entirely their fault though, as others in the thread seem to imply. The rise in expectations seems to closely match the rise of mass (and later social) media. Simply put, women and girls are exposed to all kinds of images and stories about attractive and high status men. Along with that we have dating apps that seem to reinforce this illusion of abundance. So then we should not be surprised at all that it’s so common for women to have an unrealistic picture of their prospects.
- namaria 2y ago
  > Women with unrealistic expectations creating the conditions for their own loneliness. Replace that with 'solitude' and the article pretty much explains why that is a non-issue. Women deciding they are better off alone is not a problem. Accusing them of being unhappy and then purporting to explain why is pretty weird. If there are psychological issues with people being lonely, coming to the conclusion that they should date more and if they can't it's "women's fault" is kinda flabbergasting. The social fabric isn't made of romantic pairs, and that's definitely not women's collective responsibility.
  - chongli 2y ago
    I’m not accusing anyone of being unhappy. I am believing people when they say they are unhappy. Furthermore I said specifically that it’s not women’s fault.
    - namaria 2y ago
      > it’s so common for women to have an unrealistic picture of their prospects You kinda did. > I am believing people when they say they are unhappy. Who are these unhappy women that need to lower their standards to be happy? I see two different problems: people seem to be lonely because the social fabric is being corroded away; and some people seem to think that the issue is somehow related with too many single women.
      - chongli 2y ago
        Please don’t quote me out of context. The full quote is: So then we should not be surprised at all that it’s so common for women to have an unrealistic picture of their prospects. I was talking about the mechanisms for why women would have an unrealistic picture of their prospects. Much has been written about the unrealistic expectations of men which have been driven by mass media. It’s only fair to talk about the other side of the issue which has been largely ignored, by comparison. But it’s not only the issue of expectations for dating. Young girls especially have been taught to have unrealistic expectations for their own appearance which has been driven by a ruthless set of social media algorithms that foster unhealthy comparisons (with celebrity influencers) across the entire internet. Anyway, if you want to see what should be more realistic expectations, look at pictures of families from a hundred years ago or more. What will you see? Plain and ordinary people living simple lives. Nowadays people are taught to look at such lifestyles with revulsion. Instead, they live their lonely consumerist lifestyles in their tiny apartments. You asked who all these lonely women are? They’re the friends of that guy’s wife from earlier in the thread. There are countless more women in the same situation.
cjbgkagh 2y ago
My point was the skewed perception can lead to suboptimal decision making for women who don’t want to be single. It’s a non issue for women who do want to be single.
lynx23 2y ago
Sure, but women have the "biological clock", and many of them realize they have set their expectations too high when the clock is actually running out, which then turns into a disaster/depression for them. Men don't care when they start a family. If women miss the window, and thats also why the statistic was looking at women between 20-44, they are basically done with the dream of having a child. And yeah, I am fully on your side, voluntary singles should just be left alone and allowed to be happy. However, the "I am happy as a single" is more like a coping mechanism then a real stance, at least several stories confirm that...

lizard 2y ago

Physical attributes are easy to recognize, so if these weigh heavily in your expectations, you can more rapidly estimate the distribution. Being able to do this quickly also means you can break out populations to make more accurate estimates of your current environment; i.e. while the media bombards us with beautiful celebrities, you can maintain an independent estimation of your actual dating pool. Social attributes take more time. You need to spend time with someone to understand where they are, and you would need to spend time with a lot of people to understand the distribution. You can try to use heuristics, like being in a relationship with someone you believe has similar expectations, but as noted those aren't actually very accurate.