3 ms·

i'd rather have MS taking 8GB away from my 1TB disk than having Linux taking away at least 6 hours of my life per week cause something broke or cause I have to

i'd rather have MS taking 8GB away from my 1TB disk than having Linux taking away at least 6 hours of my life per week cause something broke or cause I have to hoop through the entire internet to install or configure some shit that could've been a single click in windows.

AyyEye 2y ago
This isn't 2010 any more. If you're doing any dev work at all native linux will cause way less headaches than WSL/mingw or whatever. Even the old folks in my family are all using linux these days because everything they do is in a browser and it's easier for them than windows. That and microsoft constantly changing things out from under you and reverting settings you thought you picked for your own computer.
- FragmentShader 2y ago
  > This isn't 2010 any more. I've used Linux Desktop for 2 years in 2018 for IT studies, it was mandatory. We were like 20 students and there was a new Linux-related complaint, timewaste and workaround every day. Nobody got their degree and thought "Y'know what? i'm gonna use linux at home!" I still use Linux for servers nowadays, though. > If you're doing any dev work at all native linux will cause way less headaches than WSL/mingw or whatever. I use visual studio and I don't dev for linux, so I don't have this problem. > Even the old folks in my family are all using linux these days because everything they do is in a browser and it's easier for them than windows. If all you do is use a web browser, you might as well just use a chromebook. > That and microsoft constantly changing things out from under you and reverting settings My settings are never touched, but I agree they sometimes change stuff in a way that bothers me. Like, removing file explorer functionality in W11 and remaking it months later. But they usually make up for it by adding other cool features. Such as native (but slow) unzipping, file explorer tabs, power toys and so on.
  - consteval 2y ago
    > I use visual studio That's not a solution. Visual Studio isn't portable, it's very close to worthless software. You can use VS, my company does too. But the baggage you take with it is pretty extreme. And now we're still maintaining COM stuff (sigh...) > If all you do is use a web browser, you might as well just use a chromebook Ironically, chromebooks have a full Linux environment and you can install graphical applications and whatnot. Also they run android apps. > Such as native (but slow) unzipping, file explorer tabs, power toys and so on Those are "neat" features, but IMO Windows 11 is still not a good desktop environment. KDE has significantly more features, is much more customizable, and also much more consistent in look and feel. Windows USED to at least be polished. Now there's 3 different setting apps and also Computer Management exists and none of them even look like they belong on the same system.
  - soraminazuki 2y ago
    Yes, Microsoft will not touch your settings if you haven't disabled all the anti-features they force upon users. For the rest of us, they are relentless. They won't take no for an answer. They won't hesitate to take their users' precious time as hostage. During each update, they coerce users to enable their numerous spyware with full screen nags riddled with dark patterns. They revert explicit opt-outs. They remove user choice altogether if things don't go their way. This has been reported in the media so many times. You can't just pretend that this hasn't happened. When is enough enough? Windows bombards you with ads, installs junkware users never asked for, forces you to use Edge, collects keyboard input, records your screen, and outright steals your email. On top of that, their UX is far worse than it was 2 decades ago. In contrast, desktop Linux has improved dramatically. Unzipping and file browser tabs? They've been around since forever. They're only cool new features on Windows.
  - amaccuish 2y ago
    > If all you do is use a web browser, you might as well just use a chromebook. Which is Linux.
    - FragmentShader 2y ago
      We know MacOS is Unix. We know Linux server runs most of the internet. We know Android is Linux. Thanks for your input. We were obviously talking about the classic Linux Desktop distros, and based on the whole conversation you should know that. If ChromeOS and Android were categorized as Linux distros, then nobody would hate/love Linux Desktop per se.
      - amaccuish 2y ago
        > We know MacOS is Unix. We're obviously talking about Linux, not "Unix", and based on the whole conversation you should know that. Thanks for your input. > If ChromeOS and Android One is traditionally used on a laptop/desktop, one on a phone, not sure why you're conflating the two. And the point is, if you are "just using a web browser", desktop linux has done this for decades. And Chrome OS is definitely a desktop linux distro, why do you not consider it to be one?
    - bigfatkitten 2y ago
      Linux without the shitty aspects of having to use desktop Linux. The only downside is how firmly it is wedded to Google's cloud ecosystem.
  - AyyEye 2y ago
    > cool features. Such as native (but slow) unzipping, file explorer tabs Linux circa 2005. I will admit that the file explorer ads are a nice feature. Maybe one day ubuntu will figure out how to do this.
RaiausderDose 2y ago
Yeah, I know Linux can do gaming, dev and is stable and good. But there is always something which needs a hack / fix, different lib or something. "Normal" people just take the convenience of a working system out of the box than having a privacy respecting OS. Personal anecdote, installed Linux Mint on an old Laptop of a friend. First thing, we open Firefox and go to YouTube, hard freeze of the whole OS. Not a single key worked anymore. Not the best advertisement for the stable and better OS Linux I was showing him.
- crtasm 2y ago
  How certain are you it was a problem with Mint and not an issue with the laptop itself?

AyyEye 2y ago

This isn't 2010 any more. If you're doing any dev work at all native linux will cause way less headaches than WSL/mingw or whatever. Even the old folks in my family are all using linux these days because everything they do is in a browser and it's easier for them than windows. That and microsoft constantly changing things out from under you and reverting settings you thought you picked for your own computer.

FragmentShader 2y ago
> This isn't 2010 any more. I've used Linux Desktop for 2 years in 2018 for IT studies, it was mandatory. We were like 20 students and there was a new Linux-related complaint, timewaste and workaround every day. Nobody got their degree and thought "Y'know what? i'm gonna use linux at home!" I still use Linux for servers nowadays, though. > If you're doing any dev work at all native linux will cause way less headaches than WSL/mingw or whatever. I use visual studio and I don't dev for linux, so I don't have this problem. > Even the old folks in my family are all using linux these days because everything they do is in a browser and it's easier for them than windows. If all you do is use a web browser, you might as well just use a chromebook. > That and microsoft constantly changing things out from under you and reverting settings My settings are never touched, but I agree they sometimes change stuff in a way that bothers me. Like, removing file explorer functionality in W11 and remaking it months later. But they usually make up for it by adding other cool features. Such as native (but slow) unzipping, file explorer tabs, power toys and so on.
- consteval 2y ago
  > I use visual studio That's not a solution. Visual Studio isn't portable, it's very close to worthless software. You can use VS, my company does too. But the baggage you take with it is pretty extreme. And now we're still maintaining COM stuff (sigh...) > If all you do is use a web browser, you might as well just use a chromebook Ironically, chromebooks have a full Linux environment and you can install graphical applications and whatnot. Also they run android apps. > Such as native (but slow) unzipping, file explorer tabs, power toys and so on Those are "neat" features, but IMO Windows 11 is still not a good desktop environment. KDE has significantly more features, is much more customizable, and also much more consistent in look and feel. Windows USED to at least be polished. Now there's 3 different setting apps and also Computer Management exists and none of them even look like they belong on the same system.
- soraminazuki 2y ago
  Yes, Microsoft will not touch your settings if you haven't disabled all the anti-features they force upon users. For the rest of us, they are relentless. They won't take no for an answer. They won't hesitate to take their users' precious time as hostage. During each update, they coerce users to enable their numerous spyware with full screen nags riddled with dark patterns. They revert explicit opt-outs. They remove user choice altogether if things don't go their way. This has been reported in the media so many times. You can't just pretend that this hasn't happened. When is enough enough? Windows bombards you with ads, installs junkware users never asked for, forces you to use Edge, collects keyboard input, records your screen, and outright steals your email. On top of that, their UX is far worse than it was 2 decades ago. In contrast, desktop Linux has improved dramatically. Unzipping and file browser tabs? They've been around since forever. They're only cool new features on Windows.
- amaccuish 2y ago
  > If all you do is use a web browser, you might as well just use a chromebook. Which is Linux.
  - FragmentShader 2y ago
    We know MacOS is Unix. We know Linux server runs most of the internet. We know Android is Linux. Thanks for your input. We were obviously talking about the classic Linux Desktop distros, and based on the whole conversation you should know that. If ChromeOS and Android were categorized as Linux distros, then nobody would hate/love Linux Desktop per se.
    - amaccuish 2y ago
      > We know MacOS is Unix. We're obviously talking about Linux, not "Unix", and based on the whole conversation you should know that. Thanks for your input. > If ChromeOS and Android One is traditionally used on a laptop/desktop, one on a phone, not sure why you're conflating the two. And the point is, if you are "just using a web browser", desktop linux has done this for decades. And Chrome OS is definitely a desktop linux distro, why do you not consider it to be one?
  - bigfatkitten 2y ago
    Linux without the shitty aspects of having to use desktop Linux. The only downside is how firmly it is wedded to Google's cloud ecosystem.
- AyyEye 2y ago
  > cool features. Such as native (but slow) unzipping, file explorer tabs Linux circa 2005. I will admit that the file explorer ads are a nice feature. Maybe one day ubuntu will figure out how to do this.

RaiausderDose 2y ago

Yeah, I know Linux can do gaming, dev and is stable and good. But there is always something which needs a hack / fix, different lib or something. "Normal" people just take the convenience of a working system out of the box than having a privacy respecting OS. Personal anecdote, installed Linux Mint on an old Laptop of a friend. First thing, we open Firefox and go to YouTube, hard freeze of the whole OS. Not a single key worked anymore. Not the best advertisement for the stable and better OS Linux I was showing him.

crtasm 2y ago
How certain are you it was a problem with Mint and not an issue with the laptop itself?