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> Psylocybin? Easily? Err.. no? This is from the Dutch National Institute for Public Health and the Environment: https://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/340

by jorvi 2y ago

> Psylocybin? Easily? Err.. no? This is from the Dutch National Institute for Public Health and the Environment: https://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/340001001.pdf https://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/340001001.pdf Page 19 onward has the charts. What do do we find at the very low end in terms of chronic and acute toxicity? Shrooms (“paddos”) and LSD. It always blows my mind how anti-drug people will do a handwavey gesture to the authority of institutes like the FDA, but never actually check up on what actual research says. > As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects. Except the multitude of ways you can put yourself into a serotonin coma. I agree with your assessment that (first) use of psychedelics should be under proper guidance. But what you refer to, “going bad”, can sometimes be a traumatic past experience that people have stuffed away and by surfacing and processing it they can move past it. It’s not always meant to be kumbaya and flowers. Educate yourself, then talk.

striking 2y ago
I'm not saying psylocybin can't be used safely, nor have I made any claims about its relative toxicity or harm relative to other scheduled drugs. If you're arguing anything else, I don't think that report says what you think it says. As for my position, I live in SF, it's decriminalized here, I support that. So there's no need for your rude presumption that I find it generally unsafe. I'm also unfamiliar with the dose of SSRIs that would send you into a coma, but I'm fairly certain it's shockingly large. Happy to be informed otherwise. edit to reflect parent edit: yes, I'm aware that breakthrough experiences can be helpful. I'm also saying they should not be your first resort.
- jorvi 2y ago
  > I don't think that report says what you think it says. The report also speaks to personal, social and populational damage. > I'm also unfamiliar with the dose of SSRIs that would send you into a coma Its not the SSRI itself, but rather anything that messes with your reuptake can put you into some deep problems. And of course the bog-standard grapefruit+medicine interaction. > I'm also saying they should not be your first resort. My point was that if we are talking drugs, yes, treatment with psilocybin should definitely be higher up the list than SSRIs. SSRIs would most likely be for life, daily. Psilocybin could be bi-annually or perhaps even as spot treatment only. > So there's no need for your rude presumption that I find it generally unsafe. Apologies for coming off too strong. I just feel that, reasonable as it is, the “let’s all just take a minute” attitude gives too much ammunition to conservative hoohas to stymie these alternate treatments for another few decades. Imagine if marijuana had been more accessible to people like this in the 80’s-10’s: https://youtu.be/zNT8Zo_sfwo?si=-0xxkGE22zk9q_bC https://youtu.be/zNT8Zo_sfwo?si=-0xxkGE22zk9q_bC https://youtu.be/FSdjvEnyRzk?si=urVWAeUZ4fTCdUiw https://youtu.be/FSdjvEnyRzk?si=urVWAeUZ4fTCdUiw
wizzwizz4 2y ago
> > You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) > What do do we find at the very low end in terms of chronic and acute toxicity? Shrooms (“paddos”) and LSD. Breaking your mind doesn't count as toxicity. You're not responding to the point you tried to refute.
- worik 2y ago
  > Breaking your mind doesn't count..... Hyperbole
- jorvi 2y ago
  It’s rather difficult to “break your mind” on psychedelics. Unless you either A) already have a predisposition to something like, say, schizophrenia, or B) take stupendous amounts, you’ll be fine. And vis a vis point B, in the older days there were people who did multiple LSD hero doses, without frying their brain.
hackernewds 2y ago
toxicity is the least of _psychoactive_ drugs problems

by jorvi 2y ago

striking 2y ago

I'm not saying psylocybin can't be used safely, nor have I made any claims about its relative toxicity or harm relative to other scheduled drugs. If you're arguing anything else, I don't think that report says what you think it says. As for my position, I live in SF, it's decriminalized here, I support that. So there's no need for your rude presumption that I find it generally unsafe. I'm also unfamiliar with the dose of SSRIs that would send you into a coma, but I'm fairly certain it's shockingly large. Happy to be informed otherwise. edit to reflect parent edit: yes, I'm aware that breakthrough experiences can be helpful. I'm also saying they should not be your first resort.

jorvi 2y ago
> I don't think that report says what you think it says. The report also speaks to personal, social and populational damage. > I'm also unfamiliar with the dose of SSRIs that would send you into a coma Its not the SSRI itself, but rather anything that messes with your reuptake can put you into some deep problems. And of course the bog-standard grapefruit+medicine interaction. > I'm also saying they should not be your first resort. My point was that if we are talking drugs, yes, treatment with psilocybin should definitely be higher up the list than SSRIs. SSRIs would most likely be for life, daily. Psilocybin could be bi-annually or perhaps even as spot treatment only. > So there's no need for your rude presumption that I find it generally unsafe. Apologies for coming off too strong. I just feel that, reasonable as it is, the “let’s all just take a minute” attitude gives too much ammunition to conservative hoohas to stymie these alternate treatments for another few decades. Imagine if marijuana had been more accessible to people like this in the 80’s-10’s: https://youtu.be/zNT8Zo_sfwo?si=-0xxkGE22zk9q_bC https://youtu.be/zNT8Zo_sfwo?si=-0xxkGE22zk9q_bC https://youtu.be/FSdjvEnyRzk?si=urVWAeUZ4fTCdUiw https://youtu.be/FSdjvEnyRzk?si=urVWAeUZ4fTCdUiw

wizzwizz4 2y ago

> > You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) > What do do we find at the very low end in terms of chronic and acute toxicity? Shrooms (“paddos”) and LSD. Breaking your mind doesn't count as toxicity. You're not responding to the point you tried to refute.

worik 2y ago
> Breaking your mind doesn't count..... Hyperbole
jorvi 2y ago
It’s rather difficult to “break your mind” on psychedelics. Unless you either A) already have a predisposition to something like, say, schizophrenia, or B) take stupendous amounts, you’ll be fine. And vis a vis point B, in the older days there were people who did multiple LSD hero doses, without frying their brain.

hackernewds 2y ago

toxicity is the least of _psychoactive_ drugs problems