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Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh somet

Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain is a bit different, and we do not know, really, what goes on in there when you take a drug like Psilocybin. Sometimes something gets a little knocked out of place, and the system doesn’t fully recover. The last time I took a very high dose of psychedelics I couldn’t think straight for a few weeks after. Thoughts came out of nowhere, I had no control over them; often the constant, unceasing flow of thought was distressing and uncomfortable. Thankfully I could still talk to people—talking made me better. I got plenty of sleep, cut out all drugs, even caffiene, got regular exercise and ate a very healthy diet: about a year and a half later I was back to my old habits. But it wasn’t an easy recovery, and certainly not one any psychiatrist could’ve treated adaquetely. But, now I know to be more careful in the future.

zozbot234 2y ago
Taking psychedelics is a bit like trying to fix a Swiss watch with a sledgehammer: it might just work, but that's not the way to bet. Therapy and well-guided meditative practice can be a lot gentler than that.
- bandyaboot 2y ago
  This is sort of how the mechanism of psychedelics fixing depression comes across to me as well. But, surely there must be much more to it, since, as you’re of course aware, fixing a Swiss watch with a sledgehammer will have a very low success rate. The other end of the analogy spectrum could be that it’s a bit like a chemical catalyst. There’s a lot of resistance to a reaction happening on its own, but will very likely happen if given the proper jolt.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    A better analogy might be "fixing a heart attack with your fists". It might work, if the problem is fibrillation or a blocked artery and if the impact resolves it… or it might just cause further injury without resolving anything. (Or it might resolve the heart attack, but then cause a stroke a few minutes later.)
- earnesti 2y ago
  I agree, that taking psychedelics is likely not a good idea. But the analogue gives in my opinion totally wrong picture of the actual risks. Psychedelics, at least psilocybin, are quite harmless compared to almost any other substances. The reason for that is that they aren't very habit forming. Personally I used psilocybin recreationally back in the days. Got once bad experience and ended up in a psychosis and to hospital. I got better in couple of days and long term effects were nonexistent. Then I have couple of friends whose basic substances are just legal alcohol and cigarettes, and boy have they fucked their lives with those. It just takes a long time to do it that but psilocybin for sure does not lead to that kind of path.
- phoronixrly 2y ago
  Thank you for the balanced opinion. It's a rarity here.
- AnthonBerg 2y ago
  There is actually a ton of incredibly fascinating knowledge about what psychedelics do – neuroimmunobiologically the effects are profoundly interesting. It’s a surprisingly sharp and specific instrument, certainly double-edged though. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2015.00358/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10....
- namaria 2y ago
  This isn't some erowid report. This is actually about studies being made by professional researchers who are publishing their results. Evidence based medicine is always better than layman opinions like 'psychedelics are a mental sledgehammer'.
- jrflowers 2y ago
  Conversely, for some people trying to fix depression with therapy and guided meditation can be a bit like trying to fix a Swiss watch with therapy and guided meditation. Everybody is different!
iancmceachern 2y ago
Yeah, maybe don't take "very high doses". I've not done that. And not had any seriously bad experiences. Maybe like everything else is all about moderation?
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  It was 500ug of LSD mixed with probably 6 or 7 drinks of alcohol. Suffered serotonin syndrome for a few days afterwards. Regardless I’ve heard stories of people having severe long term psychological issues from even relatively light doses, simply because of how their body in particular interacted with the drug.
  - farts_mckensy 2y ago
    It's such a bad idea to combine alcohol with psychedelics. You should lead off with exactly what you took so as not to mislead others.
    - DiscourseFan 2y ago
      As I said my experience incurred more risk of severe long term side effects, but those are possible in any circumstance with any psychedelic with even a single, low dose.
  - me551ah 2y ago
    500ug of LSD isn’t really a standard dose. It’s almost double your typical dose.
    - Galaxeblaffer 2y ago
      250ug of good acid is still a very high dose! 500ug is more like triple of a typical sane dose. milage may vary i guess but 300ug sent me out of this world
    - Nesco 2y ago
      I know a guy who took 1000ug. He told me he had side effects / visual glitches for about an entire week
wnolens 2y ago
Had a very similar experience. Took ~2y to fully go away.
farts_mckensy 2y ago
I'm a little ambivalent about this response. It sounds like you're describing invasive thoughts of some kind, though your description is vague. At any rate, despite the perceived negative effects, by your own account, it apparently spurred you to lead a healthier life; in other contexts, this is precisely the thing that is praised when it comes to psilocybin.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  > it apparently spurred you to lead a healthier life No, I stopped mostly after I’d recovered. And I definitely wasn’t “healthier” then, just addled.
hackernewds 2y ago
Did you take it in a controlled environment like the study suggests? Every time serious conversation of medical progress comes up, it's polluted by naysayers with anecdata about how they took it while raving beside a live volcano. We need to give psychedelics a fair chance, and sure after we can discount them. The article suggests at scale there is potential
- phoronixrly 2y ago
  In my experience (this thread, too), the conversation gets polluted by people that swear by their self-medication and call more cautious people naysayers.
  - feoren 2y ago
    How come every time we try to have a conversion, it always ends up all "point counterpoint" and "personal experience with the topic" and "differing personal experience" and "discussion of how those experiences relate to the topic"!? EVERY TIME!
    - DiscourseFan 2y ago
      Its almost as if all experience is subjective…
    - phoronixrly 2y ago
      The only valuable conversation about such research is an objective discussion of the quality of the study at hand.
      - worik 2y ago
        > The only valuable conversation about such research is an objective discussion of the quality of the study at hand. No People's lived experience is very useful
        ants_everywhere 2y ago
dimal 2y ago
> we do not know, really, what goes on in there when you take a drug like Psilocybin FYI, same goes for SSRIs. The scientific consensus is that the serotonin deficiency theory of depression was wrong. When SSRIs actually work, we still don’t know why. I’ve had bad trips, too. Very bad, but I still think that psilocybin (in a controlled, supportive setting) is a better bet. My bad trips were all due to being in bad settings and being completely unprepared for what could go wrong. I was young and dumb and just fucking around. But tripping in positive supportive settings was incredibly helpful. And if we do find a way to do this right, then people don’t have to take drugs for the rest of their lives. Psychiatric drugs are generally lifelong sentences, and negative side effects tend to compound over time, which often leads to polypharmacy, and more side effects.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  I agree. But I don’t think psychedelics are the end all be all, that’s all
- Levitating 2y ago
  SSRIs barely work. For mild to moderate depression a placebo works similarly or better. Only for severe cases of depression are SSRIs found to be helpful because they surpress all emotion.
  - grandpoobah 2y ago
    Worked great for me. Placebo might have worked too, but doctors don't prescribe those!
  - drakonka 2y ago
    Maybe the effect is different when prescribed for something other than depression, but I did not find my SSRI to suppress my emotions. It simply helps me curb rumination and negative thought spirals. Helps to feel "lighter" and simultaneously more grounded. If anything, that allows me to feel _more_ positive emotion rather than suppressing it.
    - 2y ago
bugbuddy 2y ago
> Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I would like to see some actual data because my assumption has always been that most people have never tried any. I personally have not had any. I have always subscribed to the slippery slope theory of vice.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  Most people in this thread who are taking the position I’m critiquing, then
- worik 2y ago
  > I have always subscribed to the slippery slope theory of vice Me too Come on over the skiing is great!
- nixosbestos 2y ago
  I literally take psychedelics once every few months to keep myself healthy and avoiding the dopamine chasing that I otherwise slip into over time. Shockingly not all drugs are the same, or even that similar and the propaganda about drug use escalation is, I'm sorry, silly.
imwillofficial 2y ago
“Like most of you” “Objection, assuming facts not in evidence”
peepee1982 2y ago
Anyone who has ever tried to fine-tune medication for psychological issues knows how challenging it can be to get the dosages and combinations just right. In my experience, even medications within the same class can have different effects on different people, especially when combined with drugs from other classes. The interactions between medications, as well as the patient’s individual response, are hard to predict. These reactions can change over time, too, as bodies and brains adapt, and lifestyles shift. Yet, you often hear oversimplified statements like "depression means you have too little serotonin," "feeling sluggish means you lack noradrenaline," or "difficulty focusing means you have too little dopamine." These explanations are so reductive that they barely make sense. The more I read about drug trials, the more I realize how little I — and even many professionals — truly understand about how these medications work and the best way to make informed treatment decisions.
washadjeffmad 2y ago
I had a profoundly difficult trip that affected me deeply. It felt eternal, and when I emerged, I could feel it in my head like some antimemetic parasite that fed off disgust and terror. I can still remember the feeling, twenty years later, if I try, so I don't. I had to learn how not to be influenced by it, and in doing so, learned about myself. And as I changed, because I was aware of what I knew, I knew when I'd changed. Our selves are not immutable, steady states. Our experiences shape us. It's a lesson learned to guard that carefully and jealously.
- dingnuts 2y ago
  funny, I could have written the same post but about boring old general anesthesia given before surgery
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    How long ago? Every general anesthesia I've had was basically "OK you'll start to get sleepy now" and then "ok we're finished" and zero awareness of any elapsed time.
    - radlad 2y ago
      The paper here is worth a look: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36323275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36323275 Also this post has stuck with me through the years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24566568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24566568 Be sure to scroll down to the comment thread started by myself248.
brandall10 2y ago
Why did you take a very high dose? As someone who was experienced with psilocybin some 20+ years ago, I always took fairly consistent doses (roughly 3 grams), as I could sense taking much more would be playing with fire. This was pretty much a given amongst my circle of a dozen friends who experienced these trips with me… hero doses were almost never a good or healthy idea. Fun to read about on Erowid though, mostly as cautionary tales. My time with the substance ended after two bad trips (after a few dozen great ones over a period of 5 years), but neither produced any sort of even minor lasting effect.
- appplication 2y ago
  > Why did you take a very high dose? Hindsight is 20/20 but often it’s not clear at the time if it’s a bad idea or how bad it can be. I think it’s not such a fair question to someone struggling to find effective treatment for mental health issues to make a mistake on dosing. Especially given both government and medical field have historically not amenable to openly communicating harm reduction or safe guidelines for experimentation with this particular medicine.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
jrflowers 2y ago
For folks that are interested in anecdotes about psychedelics, I recommend reading Erowid expertise vaults as what gets volunteered here is very narrow and not representative of the population as a whole. I would know, as my psychedelic mega dose stories are very different from this and also completely unique to me. I’ve done 500ug of LSD and it was great fun. I scheduled a day off to rest ahead of time and was back to normal after that. 250ug of LSD + 1 full ounce of golden teacher psilocybe cubensis and had a somewhat spiritual experience, took a couple days before I wanted to resume normal life. + a dozen or more similar stories There is a reason why “set and setting” is repeated so heavily when instructing people on how to use these substances. Any discussion of potential subjective benefits or harms of a psychedelic in the context of an experience without specific accounting for that is fundamentally incomplete. That being said, if my experience sounds ridiculous to you, that’s because it’s unique to me, just as others’ are unique to them. There isn’t really much to be gained by talking about individual experiences other than it’s an entertaining topic of discussion. It gets everybody exactly nowhere closer to establishing the objective clinical value of these things, though.
- sva_ 2y ago
  'great fun' seems like a weird way to describe a 500ug trip. Did you have some tolerance before this, and do you have very high confidence that the dosage is accurate?
  - jrflowers 2y ago
    No tolerance, and yes the dosage was accurate. I picked “great fun” as a description as a shorthand because, while I could write more about it, it had little to no net positive or negative impacts on my mental health. For the purposes of this discussion, “Great fun” is kind of meant to communicate that the story is neither a warning or a recommendation regarding depression or any other mental health condition.
    - a57721 2y ago
      500µg is an immense dose, unless you have tolerance. Tabs usually have much less than the claimed amount. What was the source and form that makes you think 500µg is accurate? When it's 250µg or more, it's so overwhelming that many people don't have recollections from the trip after some point.
rjbwork 2y ago
>Thoughts came out of nowhere, I had no control over them; often the constant, unceasing flow of thought was distressing and uncomfortable. I want to touch on this. "You" never have any control of your thoughts, because "you" isn't really a thing. Psychedelics and meditation teach us this if you pay close attention. The thoughts arise from nowhere and we - the imagined, but illusory - self are mere observers along for the ride that is consciousness. I can imagine that using a substance such a psilocybin could cause your thought patterns to have both short and long term changes in quality (in terms of substance, not of superior gradation), however. It's also possible that your experience led to your paying greater attention to the thoughts that did arise, and over time the feedback loop of consciousness along with taking better care of yourself led to greater moderation of their genesis.
- gmoot 2y ago
  "You" can learn to steer your mind by choosing which of these thoughts to capture and dwell on, by monitoring them. There is voluminous writing in the area of monastic spiritually about this. On the one hand, they affirm that these thoughts aren't chosen, using the vocabulary of sinful thoughts introduced by demons. But it's also clear that change is possible through prayer/meditation (not exactly identical to modern ideas about mindfulness).
  - rjbwork 2y ago
    I tend to agree that change is possible and you can learn to steer, but that too is no choice.
    - galaxyLogic 2y ago
      I believe that our minds are much like Large Language Models. Our brains put together and combine and mix up sentences that on average have some benefit to us. We speculate to explore possible outcomes. We practice saying sentences within our heads and then explore their possible consequencees. It is a random (but not totally random of course) process where one thought gives rise to new ones. I think that depression means being in an indirect loop of negative thoughts which amplify each other. Phychedelics might be a way to break out of such loops. But, I'm just speculating here of course.
beardedwizard 2y ago
This is a real risk I see overlooked and minimized often. People should not assume it can't happen to them.
linuxhansl 2y ago
I did various journeys - initially alone, then with an experience guide. Mostly to explore a childhood trauma - mild, but traumatic enough to leave me with a stutter. There were indeed some "bad" trips, although I really do not like the term "bad". IMHO there is no bad journey, it is stuff that needs that wants to be seen. Nor is the journey itself what counts, one cannot expect a quick fix from a 4 or 5 hour journey. What really counts is the preparation (4 to 8 weeks) before, and integration afterwards (again 4 to 8 weeks). In my case I also paired it with years of therapy and meditation. It takes a lot of courage, especially to continue after an unpleasant experience (fear, grief and loneliness in my case). In my case I kept coming back and allowed myself more and more to let the bad experiences happen. Finally I just learned to be with what is, and accept things and myself the way it all is. With that came a measure of peace and insights I had not experienced before. Along with visions about the structure of existence. But I'll stress again, just popping a mushroom won't get you there :)
baq 2y ago
> Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. I guess people with really bad experiences don’t talk about them as readily as the lucky ones. I don’t know the scale, but there must be some selection bias at work here.

zozbot234 2y ago

Taking psychedelics is a bit like trying to fix a Swiss watch with a sledgehammer: it might just work, but that's not the way to bet. Therapy and well-guided meditative practice can be a lot gentler than that.

bandyaboot 2y ago
This is sort of how the mechanism of psychedelics fixing depression comes across to me as well. But, surely there must be much more to it, since, as you’re of course aware, fixing a Swiss watch with a sledgehammer will have a very low success rate. The other end of the analogy spectrum could be that it’s a bit like a chemical catalyst. There’s a lot of resistance to a reaction happening on its own, but will very likely happen if given the proper jolt.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  A better analogy might be "fixing a heart attack with your fists". It might work, if the problem is fibrillation or a blocked artery and if the impact resolves it… or it might just cause further injury without resolving anything. (Or it might resolve the heart attack, but then cause a stroke a few minutes later.)
earnesti 2y ago
I agree, that taking psychedelics is likely not a good idea. But the analogue gives in my opinion totally wrong picture of the actual risks. Psychedelics, at least psilocybin, are quite harmless compared to almost any other substances. The reason for that is that they aren't very habit forming. Personally I used psilocybin recreationally back in the days. Got once bad experience and ended up in a psychosis and to hospital. I got better in couple of days and long term effects were nonexistent. Then I have couple of friends whose basic substances are just legal alcohol and cigarettes, and boy have they fucked their lives with those. It just takes a long time to do it that but psilocybin for sure does not lead to that kind of path.
phoronixrly 2y ago
Thank you for the balanced opinion. It's a rarity here.
AnthonBerg 2y ago
There is actually a ton of incredibly fascinating knowledge about what psychedelics do – neuroimmunobiologically the effects are profoundly interesting. It’s a surprisingly sharp and specific instrument, certainly double-edged though. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2015.00358/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10....
namaria 2y ago
This isn't some erowid report. This is actually about studies being made by professional researchers who are publishing their results. Evidence based medicine is always better than layman opinions like 'psychedelics are a mental sledgehammer'.
jrflowers 2y ago
Conversely, for some people trying to fix depression with therapy and guided meditation can be a bit like trying to fix a Swiss watch with therapy and guided meditation. Everybody is different!

iancmceachern 2y ago

Yeah, maybe don't take "very high doses". I've not done that. And not had any seriously bad experiences. Maybe like everything else is all about moderation?

DiscourseFan 2y ago
It was 500ug of LSD mixed with probably 6 or 7 drinks of alcohol. Suffered serotonin syndrome for a few days afterwards. Regardless I’ve heard stories of people having severe long term psychological issues from even relatively light doses, simply because of how their body in particular interacted with the drug.
- farts_mckensy 2y ago
  It's such a bad idea to combine alcohol with psychedelics. You should lead off with exactly what you took so as not to mislead others.
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    As I said my experience incurred more risk of severe long term side effects, but those are possible in any circumstance with any psychedelic with even a single, low dose.
- me551ah 2y ago
  500ug of LSD isn’t really a standard dose. It’s almost double your typical dose.
  - Galaxeblaffer 2y ago
    250ug of good acid is still a very high dose! 500ug is more like triple of a typical sane dose. milage may vary i guess but 300ug sent me out of this world
  - Nesco 2y ago
    I know a guy who took 1000ug. He told me he had side effects / visual glitches for about an entire week

wnolens 2y ago

Had a very similar experience. Took ~2y to fully go away.

farts_mckensy 2y ago

I'm a little ambivalent about this response. It sounds like you're describing invasive thoughts of some kind, though your description is vague. At any rate, despite the perceived negative effects, by your own account, it apparently spurred you to lead a healthier life; in other contexts, this is precisely the thing that is praised when it comes to psilocybin.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
> it apparently spurred you to lead a healthier life No, I stopped mostly after I’d recovered. And I definitely wasn’t “healthier” then, just addled.

hackernewds 2y ago

Did you take it in a controlled environment like the study suggests? Every time serious conversation of medical progress comes up, it's polluted by naysayers with anecdata about how they took it while raving beside a live volcano. We need to give psychedelics a fair chance, and sure after we can discount them. The article suggests at scale there is potential

phoronixrly 2y ago
In my experience (this thread, too), the conversation gets polluted by people that swear by their self-medication and call more cautious people naysayers.
- feoren 2y ago
  How come every time we try to have a conversion, it always ends up all "point counterpoint" and "personal experience with the topic" and "differing personal experience" and "discussion of how those experiences relate to the topic"!? EVERY TIME!
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    Its almost as if all experience is subjective…
  - phoronixrly 2y ago
    The only valuable conversation about such research is an objective discussion of the quality of the study at hand.
    - worik 2y ago
      > The only valuable conversation about such research is an objective discussion of the quality of the study at hand. No People's lived experience is very useful
      - ants_everywhere 2y ago

dimal 2y ago

> we do not know, really, what goes on in there when you take a drug like Psilocybin FYI, same goes for SSRIs. The scientific consensus is that the serotonin deficiency theory of depression was wrong. When SSRIs actually work, we still don’t know why. I’ve had bad trips, too. Very bad, but I still think that psilocybin (in a controlled, supportive setting) is a better bet. My bad trips were all due to being in bad settings and being completely unprepared for what could go wrong. I was young and dumb and just fucking around. But tripping in positive supportive settings was incredibly helpful. And if we do find a way to do this right, then people don’t have to take drugs for the rest of their lives. Psychiatric drugs are generally lifelong sentences, and negative side effects tend to compound over time, which often leads to polypharmacy, and more side effects.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
I agree. But I don’t think psychedelics are the end all be all, that’s all
Levitating 2y ago
SSRIs barely work. For mild to moderate depression a placebo works similarly or better. Only for severe cases of depression are SSRIs found to be helpful because they surpress all emotion.
- grandpoobah 2y ago
  Worked great for me. Placebo might have worked too, but doctors don't prescribe those!
- drakonka 2y ago
  Maybe the effect is different when prescribed for something other than depression, but I did not find my SSRI to suppress my emotions. It simply helps me curb rumination and negative thought spirals. Helps to feel "lighter" and simultaneously more grounded. If anything, that allows me to feel _more_ positive emotion rather than suppressing it.
  - 2y ago

bugbuddy 2y ago

> Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I would like to see some actual data because my assumption has always been that most people have never tried any. I personally have not had any. I have always subscribed to the slippery slope theory of vice.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
Most people in this thread who are taking the position I’m critiquing, then
worik 2y ago
> I have always subscribed to the slippery slope theory of vice Me too Come on over the skiing is great!
nixosbestos 2y ago
I literally take psychedelics once every few months to keep myself healthy and avoiding the dopamine chasing that I otherwise slip into over time. Shockingly not all drugs are the same, or even that similar and the propaganda about drug use escalation is, I'm sorry, silly.

imwillofficial 2y ago

“Like most of you” “Objection, assuming facts not in evidence”

peepee1982 2y ago

Anyone who has ever tried to fine-tune medication for psychological issues knows how challenging it can be to get the dosages and combinations just right. In my experience, even medications within the same class can have different effects on different people, especially when combined with drugs from other classes. The interactions between medications, as well as the patient’s individual response, are hard to predict. These reactions can change over time, too, as bodies and brains adapt, and lifestyles shift. Yet, you often hear oversimplified statements like "depression means you have too little serotonin," "feeling sluggish means you lack noradrenaline," or "difficulty focusing means you have too little dopamine." These explanations are so reductive that they barely make sense. The more I read about drug trials, the more I realize how little I — and even many professionals — truly understand about how these medications work and the best way to make informed treatment decisions.

washadjeffmad 2y ago

I had a profoundly difficult trip that affected me deeply. It felt eternal, and when I emerged, I could feel it in my head like some antimemetic parasite that fed off disgust and terror. I can still remember the feeling, twenty years later, if I try, so I don't. I had to learn how not to be influenced by it, and in doing so, learned about myself. And as I changed, because I was aware of what I knew, I knew when I'd changed. Our selves are not immutable, steady states. Our experiences shape us. It's a lesson learned to guard that carefully and jealously.

dingnuts 2y ago
funny, I could have written the same post but about boring old general anesthesia given before surgery
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  How long ago? Every general anesthesia I've had was basically "OK you'll start to get sleepy now" and then "ok we're finished" and zero awareness of any elapsed time.
  - radlad 2y ago
    The paper here is worth a look: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36323275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36323275 Also this post has stuck with me through the years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24566568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24566568 Be sure to scroll down to the comment thread started by myself248.

brandall10 2y ago

Why did you take a very high dose? As someone who was experienced with psilocybin some 20+ years ago, I always took fairly consistent doses (roughly 3 grams), as I could sense taking much more would be playing with fire. This was pretty much a given amongst my circle of a dozen friends who experienced these trips with me… hero doses were almost never a good or healthy idea. Fun to read about on Erowid though, mostly as cautionary tales. My time with the substance ended after two bad trips (after a few dozen great ones over a period of 5 years), but neither produced any sort of even minor lasting effect.

appplication 2y ago
> Why did you take a very high dose? Hindsight is 20/20 but often it’s not clear at the time if it’s a bad idea or how bad it can be. I think it’s not such a fair question to someone struggling to find effective treatment for mental health issues to make a mistake on dosing. Especially given both government and medical field have historically not amenable to openly communicating harm reduction or safe guidelines for experimentation with this particular medicine.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

jrflowers 2y ago

For folks that are interested in anecdotes about psychedelics, I recommend reading Erowid expertise vaults as what gets volunteered here is very narrow and not representative of the population as a whole. I would know, as my psychedelic mega dose stories are very different from this and also completely unique to me. I’ve done 500ug of LSD and it was great fun. I scheduled a day off to rest ahead of time and was back to normal after that. 250ug of LSD + 1 full ounce of golden teacher psilocybe cubensis and had a somewhat spiritual experience, took a couple days before I wanted to resume normal life. + a dozen or more similar stories There is a reason why “set and setting” is repeated so heavily when instructing people on how to use these substances. Any discussion of potential subjective benefits or harms of a psychedelic in the context of an experience without specific accounting for that is fundamentally incomplete. That being said, if my experience sounds ridiculous to you, that’s because it’s unique to me, just as others’ are unique to them. There isn’t really much to be gained by talking about individual experiences other than it’s an entertaining topic of discussion. It gets everybody exactly nowhere closer to establishing the objective clinical value of these things, though.

sva_ 2y ago
'great fun' seems like a weird way to describe a 500ug trip. Did you have some tolerance before this, and do you have very high confidence that the dosage is accurate?
- jrflowers 2y ago
  No tolerance, and yes the dosage was accurate. I picked “great fun” as a description as a shorthand because, while I could write more about it, it had little to no net positive or negative impacts on my mental health. For the purposes of this discussion, “Great fun” is kind of meant to communicate that the story is neither a warning or a recommendation regarding depression or any other mental health condition.
  - a57721 2y ago
    500µg is an immense dose, unless you have tolerance. Tabs usually have much less than the claimed amount. What was the source and form that makes you think 500µg is accurate? When it's 250µg or more, it's so overwhelming that many people don't have recollections from the trip after some point.

rjbwork 2y ago

>Thoughts came out of nowhere, I had no control over them; often the constant, unceasing flow of thought was distressing and uncomfortable. I want to touch on this. "You" never have any control of your thoughts, because "you" isn't really a thing. Psychedelics and meditation teach us this if you pay close attention. The thoughts arise from nowhere and we - the imagined, but illusory - self are mere observers along for the ride that is consciousness. I can imagine that using a substance such a psilocybin could cause your thought patterns to have both short and long term changes in quality (in terms of substance, not of superior gradation), however. It's also possible that your experience led to your paying greater attention to the thoughts that did arise, and over time the feedback loop of consciousness along with taking better care of yourself led to greater moderation of their genesis.

gmoot 2y ago
"You" can learn to steer your mind by choosing which of these thoughts to capture and dwell on, by monitoring them. There is voluminous writing in the area of monastic spiritually about this. On the one hand, they affirm that these thoughts aren't chosen, using the vocabulary of sinful thoughts introduced by demons. But it's also clear that change is possible through prayer/meditation (not exactly identical to modern ideas about mindfulness).
- rjbwork 2y ago
  I tend to agree that change is possible and you can learn to steer, but that too is no choice.
  - galaxyLogic 2y ago
    I believe that our minds are much like Large Language Models. Our brains put together and combine and mix up sentences that on average have some benefit to us. We speculate to explore possible outcomes. We practice saying sentences within our heads and then explore their possible consequencees. It is a random (but not totally random of course) process where one thought gives rise to new ones. I think that depression means being in an indirect loop of negative thoughts which amplify each other. Phychedelics might be a way to break out of such loops. But, I'm just speculating here of course.

beardedwizard 2y ago

This is a real risk I see overlooked and minimized often. People should not assume it can't happen to them.

linuxhansl 2y ago

I did various journeys - initially alone, then with an experience guide. Mostly to explore a childhood trauma - mild, but traumatic enough to leave me with a stutter. There were indeed some "bad" trips, although I really do not like the term "bad". IMHO there is no bad journey, it is stuff that needs that wants to be seen. Nor is the journey itself what counts, one cannot expect a quick fix from a 4 or 5 hour journey. What really counts is the preparation (4 to 8 weeks) before, and integration afterwards (again 4 to 8 weeks). In my case I also paired it with years of therapy and meditation. It takes a lot of courage, especially to continue after an unpleasant experience (fear, grief and loneliness in my case). In my case I kept coming back and allowed myself more and more to let the bad experiences happen. Finally I just learned to be with what is, and accept things and myself the way it all is. With that came a measure of peace and insights I had not experienced before. Along with visions about the structure of existence. But I'll stress again, just popping a mushroom won't get you there :)

baq 2y ago

> Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. I guess people with really bad experiences don’t talk about them as readily as the lucky ones. I don’t know the scale, but there must be some selection bias at work here.