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Considering how much the US has spent and is still spending on the military for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't quite get the perception that taxing t

Considering how much the US has spent and is still spending on the military for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't quite get the perception that taxing the rich more would fix anything. The bucket is leaking like crazy at the bottom and the solution is to pour more water? It may be fairer, but will it produce that much benefit, especially when compared to how difficult it would be to make this change? Is this tax-the-rich issue a red herring? How much more money would end up in Uncle Sam's coffers anyway if the richer are taxed more?

ams6110 14y ago
This is my main feeling as well. Why does everyone think that taking more money from "the rich" and giving it to the government is going to have better results for society than just letting the rich spend it as they please?
- sxp 14y ago
  Because taxes have given us public schools, public infrastructure, and other public services. While all of these could be done better by the private sector in theory, there is no evidence that it will happen in practice.
sp332 14y ago
Since just a few percent of the US population make 40%+ of the money in a given year, increasing taxes on those relatively few people would have more effect than taxing any other group of citizens. Also, since their effective tax rate is actually lower than most peoples', bringing their tax rate into line with the rest of the country seems like a no-brainer way to increase tax revenues substantially.
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  Also, since their effective tax rate is actually lower than most peoples'... No. The people with the highest incomes already pay a disproportionately high portion of their income in taxes, far more than the poor or middle class. Bringing their tax payments into line with the rest of the country would cause them to pay a lot less in taxes than they do now. http://taxfoundation.org/article/new-data-top-1-pay-greater-dollar-amount-income-taxes-federal-government-bottom-90 http://taxfoundation.org/article/new-data-top-1-pay-greater-...
  - sp332 14y ago
    Warren Buffet famously observed that he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary. I'm mainly talking about income tax, but that chart seems to include all kinds of taxes including real estate etc. It's not at all surprising that the top few % are paying higher taxes on their property and other static wealth, my point is that they're paying lower rates on income taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Effective_income_tax_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State...
    - yummyfajitas 14y ago
      This data comes from federal tax returns. As far as I know, there are no federal taxes on real estate (except for capital gains when real estate is sold).
  - runako 14y ago
    You're making your point with the wrong table. That table doesn't include effective tax rates (which won't sum to 100%). You want this table: http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-individual-income-tax-data-0#table8 http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-indi... Even so, using AGI is misleading because the "A" means adjustments have already been removed. The more meaningful debate is actually around total (federal + state + local) effective tax rates measured against gross income.
  - anothermachine 14y ago
    Title: "New Data: Top 1% Pay Greater Dollar Amount in Income Taxes to Federal Government than Bottom 90%" Where does that article discuss "proportionate portion of their income", which I take to mean "percentage of income"?
- funkeemonk 14y ago
  I'm hopelessly naive about taxes in the US (I'm not from the US). How much more money (in dollars) are we talking about here?
  - sp332 14y ago
    The IRS currently collects $1.1 Trillion/year in personal income taxes. http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html There are progressive "tax brackets" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Year_2012_income_brackets_and_tax_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State... but to incentivize long-term investments, you might be able to claim some of your income as "capital gains" which is only taxed at 15%. So the change in revenue from taxing capital gains at a higher rate really depends on how much income is being claimed as capital gains right now.
OpieCunningham 14y ago
Tax the rich and we'll see how long until they use their considerable political power to move the gov't away from war spending. Don't tax the rich and then why should they care how much the gov't puts into war spending? It's basically free.

ams6110 14y ago

This is my main feeling as well. Why does everyone think that taking more money from "the rich" and giving it to the government is going to have better results for society than just letting the rich spend it as they please?

sxp 14y ago
Because taxes have given us public schools, public infrastructure, and other public services. While all of these could be done better by the private sector in theory, there is no evidence that it will happen in practice.

sp332 14y ago

Since just a few percent of the US population make 40%+ of the money in a given year, increasing taxes on those relatively few people would have more effect than taxing any other group of citizens. Also, since their effective tax rate is actually lower than most peoples', bringing their tax rate into line with the rest of the country seems like a no-brainer way to increase tax revenues substantially.

yummyfajitas 14y ago
Also, since their effective tax rate is actually lower than most peoples'... No. The people with the highest incomes already pay a disproportionately high portion of their income in taxes, far more than the poor or middle class. Bringing their tax payments into line with the rest of the country would cause them to pay a lot less in taxes than they do now. http://taxfoundation.org/article/new-data-top-1-pay-greater-dollar-amount-income-taxes-federal-government-bottom-90 http://taxfoundation.org/article/new-data-top-1-pay-greater-...
- sp332 14y ago
  Warren Buffet famously observed that he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary. I'm mainly talking about income tax, but that chart seems to include all kinds of taxes including real estate etc. It's not at all surprising that the top few % are paying higher taxes on their property and other static wealth, my point is that they're paying lower rates on income taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Effective_income_tax_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State...
  - yummyfajitas 14y ago
    This data comes from federal tax returns. As far as I know, there are no federal taxes on real estate (except for capital gains when real estate is sold).
- runako 14y ago
  You're making your point with the wrong table. That table doesn't include effective tax rates (which won't sum to 100%). You want this table: http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-individual-income-tax-data-0#table8 http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-indi... Even so, using AGI is misleading because the "A" means adjustments have already been removed. The more meaningful debate is actually around total (federal + state + local) effective tax rates measured against gross income.
- anothermachine 14y ago
  Title: "New Data: Top 1% Pay Greater Dollar Amount in Income Taxes to Federal Government than Bottom 90%" Where does that article discuss "proportionate portion of their income", which I take to mean "percentage of income"?
funkeemonk 14y ago
I'm hopelessly naive about taxes in the US (I'm not from the US). How much more money (in dollars) are we talking about here?
- sp332 14y ago
  The IRS currently collects $1.1 Trillion/year in personal income taxes. http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html There are progressive "tax brackets" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Year_2012_income_brackets_and_tax_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State... but to incentivize long-term investments, you might be able to claim some of your income as "capital gains" which is only taxed at 15%. So the change in revenue from taxing capital gains at a higher rate really depends on how much income is being claimed as capital gains right now.

OpieCunningham 14y ago

Tax the rich and we'll see how long until they use their considerable political power to move the gov't away from war spending. Don't tax the rich and then why should they care how much the gov't puts into war spending? It's basically free.