4 ms·

Have you visited the retroarch site without an ad blocker lately? I recommend it. Also, Retroarch can no longer run even Gameboy games on any of my systems with

by mouse_ 2y ago

Have you visited the retroarch site without an ad blocker lately? I recommend it. Also, Retroarch can no longer run even Gameboy games on any of my systems without dropping frames every few seconds, regardless of configuration. Defaults drop frames, vsync + disabled threaded rendering drops frames, any combination of backend drivers drop frames. Not to mention audio stutter and crackle, which has always been an issue in RA, not so in standalone emulators. It may be that I'm a picky bitch about these things, but retroarch has been an absolute mess lately. I can at least see where Stenzek is coming from. These people just do not care the way they ought to for such a problem. Retroarch is regression city. Stenzek's skills as a software engineer are unparalleled and I have to imagine he knows what he's talking about.

woleium 2y ago
I had a pleasant experience with emulationstation on retropie when i used it to make christmas presents a couple of years back.
garaetjjte 2y ago
I feel I'm missing context? What does RetroArch has to do with it?
- mouse_ 2y ago
  Stenzek (DuckStation developer, also contributed many dramatic improvements to Dolphin and PCSX2) effectively declared very public war on Retroarch. He gets a lot of shit for it in certain circles, and for the way he did it (relicensing DuckStation from GPL to a nonfree license). Lots of drama.
  - arp242 2y ago
    It wouldn't be an serious emulator without tons of drama. It's pretty much a requirement.
  - noirscape 2y ago
    The relicense had nothing to do with that and it wouldn't stop RetroArch regardless. They ship RA with several by-license-text incompatible[0] emulators anyway; many of their cores are under non-commercial licenses and some are explicitly included against the wishes of their original developers; ask the MAME devs what they think of RetroArch. Stenzek changed the license because he had a meltdown last month when PCSX2 changed it's license from the LGPL to the GPL (which is allowed by the LGPL; there's nothing dubious about making this change)[1] for... some reason. In response, he threw a tantrum and closed all his open PCSX2 PRs, effectively quitting the project[2][3][4]. RetroArch is a plague on the emulation community, but that's not why Stenzek relicensed his emulator. [0]: If this is actually incompatible will largely depend on your views how the GPL interacts with dynamic linking. Don't just repeat the FSF FAQ, look for other legal opinions not written by free software advocates. [1]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11648 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11648 [2]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11315 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11315 [3]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11401 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11401 [4]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11449 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11449
    - molticrystal 2y ago
      Did Stenzek publicly discuss his motivations somewhere, or did this happen in some unindexed chatroom/backroom? It would probably be good to look over the rational and complaints causing the fallout first hand.
    - flykespice 2y ago
      > Stenzek changed the license because he had a meltdown last month when PCSX2 changed it's license from the LGPL to the GPL (which is allowed by the LGPL; there's nothing dubious about making this change)[1] for... some reason. In response, he threw a tantrum and closed all his open PCSX2 PRs, effectively quitting the project[2][3][4]. Pretty sure it's because he would be "forced" to open-source Aethersx2 (which is an android port of pcsx2).
      - lcouturi 2y ago
        He wouldn't be. AetherSX2 is based on LGPL-era PCSX2 code and license changes don't apply retroactively like that (otherwise, imagine if SDL changed its license to GPL and instantly forced half of PC games to go open source). It would only prevent him from using code added after the switch to GPL, which is not a problem because AetherSX2 ended development long before PCSX2 switched to the GPL.
sunaookami 2y ago
RetroArch is cancer to the emulation scene. Multiple emulator devs despise RetroArch and users don't like it because of the confusing UI. It's sad that standalone emulators for homebrewed console (e.g. Switch) have gotten so rare "thanks" to RetroArch.
- bluescrn 2y ago
  That 'confusing UI' is fully functional with a game controller, and consistent across many cores. Which is a massive win when you want to run emulators on devices without mouse/keyboard, and more than makes up for minor performance issues or having out-of-date cores.
  - recursivecaveat 2y ago
    I've run many of the underlying emulators' software that got repurposed into cores. I loved XMB on the PS3 and PSP, and I really wish Sony didn't drop it. Retroarch's UI is a complete disaster. It is on the whole the most confusing software I have ever encountered.
  - Lammy 2y ago
    That's actually one of my reasons for preferring standalone emulators on Android. My device's hardware L and R work by emulating screen touch, and the touch positions are assigned per-app, so with something like RetroArch it would be a pain to make sure an appropriate L/R target is in the same place for each emulated system.
- Shekelphile 2y ago
  The shittiest part is the RA 'team' (really just daniel) forks the most popular emulators and profits off them while never updating their forks with upstream improvements and never pushing any of the money they profit back to the emudevs doing actual work. It's really sad that he still hasn't been pushed out yet.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    They only fork the projects that are extremely difficult to work with the upstream authors of; DuckStation is a prime example. And I guarantee you nobody on the libretro team is "profiting" off of other emulator projects unless you consider the RetroArch patreon donations to be part of that, but that money often goes back to developers funding bounties and other work/hardware for development... and it exists irrespective of any cores they might support. The claim that they never update their forks is also demonstrably false. There are some cores that lack a maintainer, but it's not like they are actively being hostile in some way by not updating something. Also keep in mind that they host hundreds of different cores and all the builds for them across a dozen+ platforms, which is thousands of different build combinations, something I've never seen in ANY other single software project on earth (unless you count an operating system I guess). And some people only want to work on certain cores, or just RA. I think attitudes like this is exactly why nothing ever changes in the emulation scene.
bluescrn 2y ago
Retroarch isn't perfect - but it makes emulators usable on devices without mouse+keyboard, with a consistent UI for configuration. Without it, emulation on Steam Deck and Miyoo/Ambernic-style devices would be nowhere near as good an experience. And if you're focused on emulating 8/16bit games, it runs the vast majority of them just fine. (If you want to emulate, say, Gamecube or beyond, that's when you're better off with individual standalone emulators)
BlackLotus89 2y ago
Nothing you said has any grounding in reality. https://libretro.com https://libretro.com is ad-free No hardware I tested has any problems with any emulator and most emulators still run better than the main port. If you were referring to another retroarch site you went to the wrong site which could explain your problems, but please open a bug report if you really have such a bad experience with retroarch and maybe try another libretro frontend. Sadly I consider your comment as FUD since I can't collaborate/verify any of your problems on any hardware... I'm sorry. If you really downloaded retroarch from a non official source, please check your PC for malware. Edit just to clarify I'm not associated with retroarch even though I provided code a few times in the past. I'm still using it from time to time, but I hadn't had contact to anyone from this project for years. I'm just an independent dev who hates FUD...

by mouse_ 2y ago

woleium 2y ago

I had a pleasant experience with emulationstation on retropie when i used it to make christmas presents a couple of years back.

garaetjjte 2y ago

I feel I'm missing context? What does RetroArch has to do with it?

mouse_ 2y ago
Stenzek (DuckStation developer, also contributed many dramatic improvements to Dolphin and PCSX2) effectively declared very public war on Retroarch. He gets a lot of shit for it in certain circles, and for the way he did it (relicensing DuckStation from GPL to a nonfree license). Lots of drama.
- arp242 2y ago
  It wouldn't be an serious emulator without tons of drama. It's pretty much a requirement.
- noirscape 2y ago
  The relicense had nothing to do with that and it wouldn't stop RetroArch regardless. They ship RA with several by-license-text incompatible[0] emulators anyway; many of their cores are under non-commercial licenses and some are explicitly included against the wishes of their original developers; ask the MAME devs what they think of RetroArch. Stenzek changed the license because he had a meltdown last month when PCSX2 changed it's license from the LGPL to the GPL (which is allowed by the LGPL; there's nothing dubious about making this change)[1] for... some reason. In response, he threw a tantrum and closed all his open PCSX2 PRs, effectively quitting the project[2][3][4]. RetroArch is a plague on the emulation community, but that's not why Stenzek relicensed his emulator. [0]: If this is actually incompatible will largely depend on your views how the GPL interacts with dynamic linking. Don't just repeat the FSF FAQ, look for other legal opinions not written by free software advocates. [1]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11648 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11648 [2]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11315 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11315 [3]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11401 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11401 [4]: https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11449 https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/11449
  - molticrystal 2y ago
    Did Stenzek publicly discuss his motivations somewhere, or did this happen in some unindexed chatroom/backroom? It would probably be good to look over the rational and complaints causing the fallout first hand.
  - flykespice 2y ago
    > Stenzek changed the license because he had a meltdown last month when PCSX2 changed it's license from the LGPL to the GPL (which is allowed by the LGPL; there's nothing dubious about making this change)[1] for... some reason. In response, he threw a tantrum and closed all his open PCSX2 PRs, effectively quitting the project[2][3][4]. Pretty sure it's because he would be "forced" to open-source Aethersx2 (which is an android port of pcsx2).
    - lcouturi 2y ago
      He wouldn't be. AetherSX2 is based on LGPL-era PCSX2 code and license changes don't apply retroactively like that (otherwise, imagine if SDL changed its license to GPL and instantly forced half of PC games to go open source). It would only prevent him from using code added after the switch to GPL, which is not a problem because AetherSX2 ended development long before PCSX2 switched to the GPL.

sunaookami 2y ago

RetroArch is cancer to the emulation scene. Multiple emulator devs despise RetroArch and users don't like it because of the confusing UI. It's sad that standalone emulators for homebrewed console (e.g. Switch) have gotten so rare "thanks" to RetroArch.

bluescrn 2y ago
That 'confusing UI' is fully functional with a game controller, and consistent across many cores. Which is a massive win when you want to run emulators on devices without mouse/keyboard, and more than makes up for minor performance issues or having out-of-date cores.
- recursivecaveat 2y ago
  I've run many of the underlying emulators' software that got repurposed into cores. I loved XMB on the PS3 and PSP, and I really wish Sony didn't drop it. Retroarch's UI is a complete disaster. It is on the whole the most confusing software I have ever encountered.
- Lammy 2y ago
  That's actually one of my reasons for preferring standalone emulators on Android. My device's hardware L and R work by emulating screen touch, and the touch positions are assigned per-app, so with something like RetroArch it would be a pain to make sure an appropriate L/R target is in the same place for each emulated system.
Shekelphile 2y ago
The shittiest part is the RA 'team' (really just daniel) forks the most popular emulators and profits off them while never updating their forks with upstream improvements and never pushing any of the money they profit back to the emudevs doing actual work. It's really sad that he still hasn't been pushed out yet.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  They only fork the projects that are extremely difficult to work with the upstream authors of; DuckStation is a prime example. And I guarantee you nobody on the libretro team is "profiting" off of other emulator projects unless you consider the RetroArch patreon donations to be part of that, but that money often goes back to developers funding bounties and other work/hardware for development... and it exists irrespective of any cores they might support. The claim that they never update their forks is also demonstrably false. There are some cores that lack a maintainer, but it's not like they are actively being hostile in some way by not updating something. Also keep in mind that they host hundreds of different cores and all the builds for them across a dozen+ platforms, which is thousands of different build combinations, something I've never seen in ANY other single software project on earth (unless you count an operating system I guess). And some people only want to work on certain cores, or just RA. I think attitudes like this is exactly why nothing ever changes in the emulation scene.

bluescrn 2y ago

Retroarch isn't perfect - but it makes emulators usable on devices without mouse+keyboard, with a consistent UI for configuration. Without it, emulation on Steam Deck and Miyoo/Ambernic-style devices would be nowhere near as good an experience. And if you're focused on emulating 8/16bit games, it runs the vast majority of them just fine. (If you want to emulate, say, Gamecube or beyond, that's when you're better off with individual standalone emulators)

BlackLotus89 2y ago

Nothing you said has any grounding in reality. https://libretro.com https://libretro.com is ad-free No hardware I tested has any problems with any emulator and most emulators still run better than the main port. If you were referring to another retroarch site you went to the wrong site which could explain your problems, but please open a bug report if you really have such a bad experience with retroarch and maybe try another libretro frontend. Sadly I consider your comment as FUD since I can't collaborate/verify any of your problems on any hardware... I'm sorry. If you really downloaded retroarch from a non official source, please check your PC for malware. Edit just to clarify I'm not associated with retroarch even though I provided code a few times in the past. I'm still using it from time to time, but I hadn't had contact to anyone from this project for years. I'm just an independent dev who hates FUD...