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FreeBSD already has a lot going for it: - Native (and modern) ZFS, you don't have to worry about a kernel update breaking your filesystem as with ZFS on Linux

FreeBSD already has a lot going for it: - Native (and modern) ZFS, you don't have to worry about a kernel update breaking your filesystem as with ZFS on Linux - Containerization in the form of Jails - A high quality type-2 hypervisor I personally think the effort of getting better desktop support is a lost cause, it really shines on the server and should really double down in that area with improvements to things like CPU microcode updates (I really like the way SmartOS handles those) maybe pull in some things from OpenBSD like unveil and pledge (FreeBSD has Capsicum but it's not as good IMHO.) Perhaps also some kind of smartmon-like tool integrated into base. They also need to fix the long standing issues with ports vanishing. It's that issue where you update all your packages and some port you once used has some dependency that prevented it from building and now you're stuck without that essential port until it gets fixed. I don't know how to fix this but Linux does not have this problem but I've been bitten by it on FreeBSD a couple of times and it hurts.

rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 2y ago
> Containerization in the form of Jails Can you share "jail images" in a similar way you would share a docker image?
- mcflubbins 2y ago
  Not really though I think there are some half-baked projects that aimed to do that. You can get somewhat close by doing a `zfs send` to a file. You still need the jail configuration though (I suppose you could put that _into_ the filesystem.) There's no "jailhub" that I'm aware of but could be completely wrong. IIRC there is some risk of importing a zfs dataset that you didn't create as the data stream is sent straight through the kernel.
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  Yes you can, "iocage export/import" or "iocage fetch" with export you have a single compressed file (the zfs filesystem) and a manifest file...that's it. However you can also use podman (aka docker) or other "Container-tools": https://wiki.freebsd.org/Containers https://wiki.freebsd.org/Containers
  - mcflubbins 2y ago
    iocage has been archived: https://github.com/iocage/iocage https://github.com/iocage/iocage
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      It gets internally developed: https://github.com/freebsd/iocage https://github.com/freebsd/iocage As part of the FreeBSD-Project itself, since the original developer (FreeNAS?) abandon it.
      - mcflubbins 2y ago
        Ah good to know, I wish that information would have been easier to find.
- crest 2y ago
  It can be done. I do it every few days, so the mechanisms to do that exist, but there is no agreed upon exchange format to form a community around to reuse work packaging application deployments.
  - mcflubbins 2y ago
    > there is no agreed upon exchange format to form a community around to reuse work packaging application deployments. Wasn't the OCI Image Format an attempt at this? Obviously it hasn't become THE format but I thought there was effort towards it a while back.
Gud 2y ago
What do you mean, “lost cause”? I use it just fine on the desktop. I welcome any improvements. Regarding your last comment with vanishing ports, it’s not something I’ve experienced with 20 years of FreeBSD usage.
- mcflubbins 2y ago
  > What do you mean, “lost cause”? I use it just fine on the desktop. I don't see the benefit in trying to compete with MacOS, Windows, ChromeOS or Linux in the Desktop space. Those platforms have the desktop app mind share there's very little commercial desktop software created specifically for FreeBSD while on the other hand there have been several successful commercial embedded and server products created on FreeBSD. To me, it makes sense to focus on the strengths of FreeBSD. Saying that, I realize anyone is free to work on what they find interesting! > Regarding your last comment with vanishing ports, it’s not something I’ve experienced with 20 years of FreeBSD usage. Here's one example, not my post but I've seen stuff like this before: https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/17c5bmc/freebsd14rc1_firefox_disappearing_from_repos/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/17c5bmc/freebsd14r... Alan Jude brought it up on his talk at BSDCan as well: https://youtu.be/N1-sViicQvU?si=mGP5ofjn4i5lhHRx&t=2059 https://youtu.be/N1-sViicQvU?si=mGP5ofjn4i5lhHRx&t=2059

rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 2y ago

> Containerization in the form of Jails Can you share "jail images" in a similar way you would share a docker image?

mcflubbins 2y ago
Not really though I think there are some half-baked projects that aimed to do that. You can get somewhat close by doing a `zfs send` to a file. You still need the jail configuration though (I suppose you could put that _into_ the filesystem.) There's no "jailhub" that I'm aware of but could be completely wrong. IIRC there is some risk of importing a zfs dataset that you didn't create as the data stream is sent straight through the kernel.
BSDobelix 2y ago
Yes you can, "iocage export/import" or "iocage fetch" with export you have a single compressed file (the zfs filesystem) and a manifest file...that's it. However you can also use podman (aka docker) or other "Container-tools": https://wiki.freebsd.org/Containers https://wiki.freebsd.org/Containers
- mcflubbins 2y ago
  iocage has been archived: https://github.com/iocage/iocage https://github.com/iocage/iocage
  - BSDobelix 2y ago
    It gets internally developed: https://github.com/freebsd/iocage https://github.com/freebsd/iocage As part of the FreeBSD-Project itself, since the original developer (FreeNAS?) abandon it.
    - mcflubbins 2y ago
      Ah good to know, I wish that information would have been easier to find.
crest 2y ago
It can be done. I do it every few days, so the mechanisms to do that exist, but there is no agreed upon exchange format to form a community around to reuse work packaging application deployments.
- mcflubbins 2y ago
  > there is no agreed upon exchange format to form a community around to reuse work packaging application deployments. Wasn't the OCI Image Format an attempt at this? Obviously it hasn't become THE format but I thought there was effort towards it a while back.

Gud 2y ago

What do you mean, “lost cause”? I use it just fine on the desktop. I welcome any improvements. Regarding your last comment with vanishing ports, it’s not something I’ve experienced with 20 years of FreeBSD usage.

mcflubbins 2y ago
> What do you mean, “lost cause”? I use it just fine on the desktop. I don't see the benefit in trying to compete with MacOS, Windows, ChromeOS or Linux in the Desktop space. Those platforms have the desktop app mind share there's very little commercial desktop software created specifically for FreeBSD while on the other hand there have been several successful commercial embedded and server products created on FreeBSD. To me, it makes sense to focus on the strengths of FreeBSD. Saying that, I realize anyone is free to work on what they find interesting! > Regarding your last comment with vanishing ports, it’s not something I’ve experienced with 20 years of FreeBSD usage. Here's one example, not my post but I've seen stuff like this before: https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/17c5bmc/freebsd14rc1_firefox_disappearing_from_repos/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/17c5bmc/freebsd14r... Alan Jude brought it up on his talk at BSDCan as well: https://youtu.be/N1-sViicQvU?si=mGP5ofjn4i5lhHRx&t=2059 https://youtu.be/N1-sViicQvU?si=mGP5ofjn4i5lhHRx&t=2059