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> Now if you have another company whose employees believe in the company's mission, prioritize company success, don't see a necessary trade-off between work and

> Now if you have another company whose employees believe in the company's mission, prioritize company success, don't see a necessary trade-off between work and lifestyle, and enjoy working with their teams in person This is a nice image you've painted but this company doesn't exist except in the minds of some CEOs and startup founders. You know what actually happens? A CEO announces RTO, people are outraged, everybody is looking at their options, those who manage to do it switch jobs immediately, those who can't do it at the next opportunity, the ones who are left are a combination of extroverts who finally can have endless interactions with those who want them and those who don't, and a bunch of disgruntled employees who don't give a fuck about your company because of the way you treated them.

noch 2y ago
> You know what actually happens? […] A bunch of disgruntled employees who don't give a fuck about your company because of the way you treated them. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. I hope you'll heal and be okay or find work that makes you feel appreciated and rewards you. I remember being stealth fired simply because I was never in the office and those who were assumed "he doesn't really work here anyway". Out of sight out of mind, and Zoom couldn't fix that. Colleagues just forgot about me despite the Zoom calls.
- benterix 2y ago
  > I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. No, actually I haven't. I just have many colleagues who share their feelings with me. In my niche, all best-paid positions are remote only, I basically cooperate with teams from different continents, it's very rewarding. If someone tried to offer me a job forcing me to sit in an open plan office, I would laugh in their face, it seems so ridiculously absurd and unnecessary. The possibility of WFH (for those who want it) is one of the best that happened to the working class since 5-day workweek.
  - noch 2y ago
    > No, actually I haven't. Ah. Well, second hand anecdotes are certainly appreciated. Thanks for sharing. > The possibility of WFH (for those who want it) is one of the best that happened to the working class since 5-day workweek. Does "working class" have a different meaning today? When I entered the job market it meant "blue collar" or manual labourer. You seem to be indicating that you're what used to be called "knowledge worker"? Nonetheless I agree with what you and others have said: wfh is great for optimizing an individual's lifestyle. Such a person, focused on their lifestyle, would probably do just as well if they were paid not to work. As a business owner however, the question is: what is best for the business?
    - pjc50 2y ago
      Anyone who is dependent on labour rather than capital for their income is technically working class. The Marxist classifications don't really work for knowledge workers or professionals.
      - noch 2y ago
        > The Marxist classifications don't really work for knowledge workers or professionals. I see. Thanks for that clarification. Most of the people I've worked with earn money by running fleets of servers and software that do the work that generates income. It feels weird calling them "working class."
        pjc50 2y ago
        > earn money by running fleets of servers and software that do the work that generates income If they're owning the servers and/or software, that's a capital asset. That puts them in the "petit bourgeois" category, like small shopkeepers. If they don't own the capital assets they're economically dependent on, that roughly corresponds to sharecropping. We've had a few stories on here of what happens when the landlord decides to obliterate such businesses by changing the terms.
        noch 2y ago
  - LaserToy 2y ago
    How much are you paid? Total comp?
    - benterix 2y ago
      I'm reluctant to provide details as these days you can be doxxed by just one's writing style but I manage to save 85% of my salary and rent a private 50sqm office with all amenities just for myself.
      - LaserToy 2y ago
        Was trying to gauge whether you are underpaid because you only accept remote work. Economy will be the one that will determines the ultimate outcome, especially for tech companies, as they compete globally

noch 2y ago

> You know what actually happens? […] A bunch of disgruntled employees who don't give a fuck about your company because of the way you treated them. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. I hope you'll heal and be okay or find work that makes you feel appreciated and rewards you. I remember being stealth fired simply because I was never in the office and those who were assumed "he doesn't really work here anyway". Out of sight out of mind, and Zoom couldn't fix that. Colleagues just forgot about me despite the Zoom calls.

benterix 2y ago
> I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. No, actually I haven't. I just have many colleagues who share their feelings with me. In my niche, all best-paid positions are remote only, I basically cooperate with teams from different continents, it's very rewarding. If someone tried to offer me a job forcing me to sit in an open plan office, I would laugh in their face, it seems so ridiculously absurd and unnecessary. The possibility of WFH (for those who want it) is one of the best that happened to the working class since 5-day workweek.
- noch 2y ago
  > No, actually I haven't. Ah. Well, second hand anecdotes are certainly appreciated. Thanks for sharing. > The possibility of WFH (for those who want it) is one of the best that happened to the working class since 5-day workweek. Does "working class" have a different meaning today? When I entered the job market it meant "blue collar" or manual labourer. You seem to be indicating that you're what used to be called "knowledge worker"? Nonetheless I agree with what you and others have said: wfh is great for optimizing an individual's lifestyle. Such a person, focused on their lifestyle, would probably do just as well if they were paid not to work. As a business owner however, the question is: what is best for the business?
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Anyone who is dependent on labour rather than capital for their income is technically working class. The Marxist classifications don't really work for knowledge workers or professionals.
    - noch 2y ago
      > The Marxist classifications don't really work for knowledge workers or professionals. I see. Thanks for that clarification. Most of the people I've worked with earn money by running fleets of servers and software that do the work that generates income. It feels weird calling them "working class."
      - pjc50 2y ago
        > earn money by running fleets of servers and software that do the work that generates income If they're owning the servers and/or software, that's a capital asset. That puts them in the "petit bourgeois" category, like small shopkeepers. If they don't own the capital assets they're economically dependent on, that roughly corresponds to sharecropping. We've had a few stories on here of what happens when the landlord decides to obliterate such businesses by changing the terms.
        noch 2y ago
- LaserToy 2y ago
  How much are you paid? Total comp?
  - benterix 2y ago
    I'm reluctant to provide details as these days you can be doxxed by just one's writing style but I manage to save 85% of my salary and rent a private 50sqm office with all amenities just for myself.
    - LaserToy 2y ago
      Was trying to gauge whether you are underpaid because you only accept remote work. Economy will be the one that will determines the ultimate outcome, especially for tech companies, as they compete globally