6 ms·

It's a trap. We can already run almost all Linux apps via other solutions like termux, qpython and others. They want to kill all of it, but they can't just do i

It's a trap. We can already run almost all Linux apps via other solutions like termux, qpython and others. They want to kill all of it, but they can't just do it without a pr hit. So they just "pretend" to bring in crappy Linux support while removing what people actually use. You want terminal apps on that Linux? (99% of what I use) You need to connect a USB keyboard. Oh, you want X11 apps? They need to ve rebuilt with our "library" (that will probably require significant redevelopment). And so on. No, I don't trust Google neither other monopolies.

throawayonthe 2y ago
this is based on pKVM, and should bring rootful VMs on unrooted devices
- soupbowl 2y ago
  "should" We shall see.
- asimovfan 2y ago
  what does rootful mean here? I can't run wireshark on crostini (linux in chromeOS) for example.
  - throawayonthe 2y ago
    is that not because it's a VM rather than lack of privileges? you would see the virtual network interface
pjmlp 2y ago
Termux is no longer available via Play store as they refuse to acknowledge the way is via Java user space for specific official APIs.
- silisili 2y ago
  Termux is available via the Play store right now, on Android at least.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    it's a really old version. the latest version is available on GitHub.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    A "crippled" (in capabilities) version of Termux is on GooglePlay - that which targets the latest SDK instead of the last before forbidding execution of binaries outside the APK. See https://github.com/termux-play-store/ https://github.com/termux-play-store/
    - guerrilla 2y ago
      Thanks. That was very clear and informative. Props to them for producing excellent documentation of what's going on. By the way, I'm using the Play store version and don't have any issues but all I do for now is read man pages and use ssh.
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  They're working on it: https://github.com/termux-play-store https://github.com/termux-play-store Android dropped a lot of native APIs, though, so it may take a while for the Play Store version to be feature complete again (and even then they will still need to continuously convince their AI reviewers that they do in fact need all of those permissions). Google decided that it's not acceptable to execute downloaded binaries, which is a fair requirement for most non-malicious apps, but a program for Termux. Termux can work around it, but I'm fully expecting them to get kicked out of the Play Store not long after their work is complete for circumventing these protections.
- NotPractical 2y ago
  > they refuse to acknowledge the way is via Java user space I don't think that has much to do with it. Google's problem with Termux is that it downloads and executes native code. Also, you're phrasing that like refusing to acknowledge a megacorporation's version of the truth is a bad thing.
nolist_policy 2y ago
You're not wrong, if Google adds proper input methods support to Wayland (like on ChromeOS) apps will have to adapt. Or stick to the main toolkits (GTK and qt6) where Google provides IME modules. IME on Wayland sucks right now outside of ChromeOS.
- mdhb 2y ago
  I just put Ubuntu 24.10 onto a box yesterday where Wayland is the new default and so far I must say everything has been smooth sailing including a few games on Steam that I tried so far.
llm_trw 2y ago
>No, I don't trust Google neither other monopolies. If it's any conciliation neither does the US government. We are in for a ma-bel shakeup of the market. You know, the one that let internet running to your house happen.
- trueismywork 2y ago
  Breaking up Google but not breaking up Microsoft is a complete sham. If there's any company that needs to be broken up first, it's Microsoft.
  - kupopuffs 2y ago
    That's cap. Google is so much more pervasive
    - devjab 2y ago
      Is this really still true? This isn’t meant to be a defence of Google by any means, but to me it seems Microsoft has adopted a lot of pervasive practices in recent years. To the point where they would actively add things like Minecraft installers in my personal windows machine with whatever tiny version of windows comes with a prebuilt PC used like a game console. I guess it’s not privacy invasive to add a Minecraft commercial directly into my OS, but they seem to be doing more and more of that stuff as well through their “telemetry”. Though I suppose much of it is targeting enterprise rather than our personal privacy.
      - ruthmarx 2y ago
        MS are doing shitty stuff but they are hardly the monopoly they were in the 90s. You can ignore and avoid Microsoft completely if you want these days. The same is harder for Google - most people at least will want to watch something on YouTube at some point.
        zahllos 2y ago
strombofulous 2y ago
> They want to kill all of it, but they can't just do it without a pr hit. Gogle can do whatever they want to qpython and termux, 99% of the population will not care at all
- appendix-rock 2y ago
  Add several more 9s to that.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
  Sounds like this "99%" segment of the population are not relevant to a discussion of this topic: corporate-controlled operating systems.
- NotPractical 2y ago
  I see this kind of sentiment on HN a lot and it's weird to me. Like, what's the issue with discussing on a hacker forum ways that Google is making Android worse for hackers? Especially considering the alternative is iOS and it's much worse in that regard.
samyar 2y ago
bro is paranoid
- exe34 2y ago
  it's not paranoia when they're out to get you. these companies have made it clear time and time again, control and profits are the only things they care about - not the effort that you put in to produce something useful to others. they will break it at every opportunity to make a quick buck.
- abenga 2y ago
  Rightfully so.
nsonha 2y ago
no you are not running Linux with those, if so, people would not be so excited about pKVM, or Samsung's Linux on DEX
Xeamek 2y ago
>They need to ve rebuilt with our "library" Doesn't termux already require all its packages to be compiled against android NDKs?
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  Yes, to link against Android libc.
dustyventure 2y ago
I'm inclined to suggest walking directly into their trap, gradually developing all the missing apps of a mobile-linux phone and then introducing a wine-like layer that emulates their trap on Linux mobile..
fredgrott 2y ago
No, there underneath is a migration plan being implemented...legacy Android will run sand boxed Linux apps to match Fuchsia offerings....first OEM Fuchsia device is 2028.
- brokensegue 2y ago
  Isn't fuchsia dead?
pella 2y ago
> We can already run almost all Linux apps via other solutions with Rooting. "Docker on Android " https://gist.github.com/FreddieOliveira/efe850df7ff3951cb62d74bd770dce27 https://gist.github.com/FreddieOliveira/efe850df7ff3951cb62d...

throawayonthe 2y ago

this is based on pKVM, and should bring rootful VMs on unrooted devices

soupbowl 2y ago
"should" We shall see.
asimovfan 2y ago
what does rootful mean here? I can't run wireshark on crostini (linux in chromeOS) for example.
- throawayonthe 2y ago
  is that not because it's a VM rather than lack of privileges? you would see the virtual network interface

pjmlp 2y ago

Termux is no longer available via Play store as they refuse to acknowledge the way is via Java user space for specific official APIs.

silisili 2y ago
Termux is available via the Play store right now, on Android at least.
- fragmede 2y ago
  it's a really old version. the latest version is available on GitHub.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  A "crippled" (in capabilities) version of Termux is on GooglePlay - that which targets the latest SDK instead of the last before forbidding execution of binaries outside the APK. See https://github.com/termux-play-store/ https://github.com/termux-play-store/
  - guerrilla 2y ago
    Thanks. That was very clear and informative. Props to them for producing excellent documentation of what's going on. By the way, I'm using the Play store version and don't have any issues but all I do for now is read man pages and use ssh.
jeroenhd 2y ago
They're working on it: https://github.com/termux-play-store https://github.com/termux-play-store Android dropped a lot of native APIs, though, so it may take a while for the Play Store version to be feature complete again (and even then they will still need to continuously convince their AI reviewers that they do in fact need all of those permissions). Google decided that it's not acceptable to execute downloaded binaries, which is a fair requirement for most non-malicious apps, but a program for Termux. Termux can work around it, but I'm fully expecting them to get kicked out of the Play Store not long after their work is complete for circumventing these protections.
NotPractical 2y ago
> they refuse to acknowledge the way is via Java user space I don't think that has much to do with it. Google's problem with Termux is that it downloads and executes native code. Also, you're phrasing that like refusing to acknowledge a megacorporation's version of the truth is a bad thing.

nolist_policy 2y ago

You're not wrong, if Google adds proper input methods support to Wayland (like on ChromeOS) apps will have to adapt. Or stick to the main toolkits (GTK and qt6) where Google provides IME modules. IME on Wayland sucks right now outside of ChromeOS.

mdhb 2y ago
I just put Ubuntu 24.10 onto a box yesterday where Wayland is the new default and so far I must say everything has been smooth sailing including a few games on Steam that I tried so far.

llm_trw 2y ago

>No, I don't trust Google neither other monopolies. If it's any conciliation neither does the US government. We are in for a ma-bel shakeup of the market. You know, the one that let internet running to your house happen.

trueismywork 2y ago
Breaking up Google but not breaking up Microsoft is a complete sham. If there's any company that needs to be broken up first, it's Microsoft.
- kupopuffs 2y ago
  That's cap. Google is so much more pervasive
  - devjab 2y ago
    Is this really still true? This isn’t meant to be a defence of Google by any means, but to me it seems Microsoft has adopted a lot of pervasive practices in recent years. To the point where they would actively add things like Minecraft installers in my personal windows machine with whatever tiny version of windows comes with a prebuilt PC used like a game console. I guess it’s not privacy invasive to add a Minecraft commercial directly into my OS, but they seem to be doing more and more of that stuff as well through their “telemetry”. Though I suppose much of it is targeting enterprise rather than our personal privacy.
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      MS are doing shitty stuff but they are hardly the monopoly they were in the 90s. You can ignore and avoid Microsoft completely if you want these days. The same is harder for Google - most people at least will want to watch something on YouTube at some point.
      - zahllos 2y ago

strombofulous 2y ago

> They want to kill all of it, but they can't just do it without a pr hit. Gogle can do whatever they want to qpython and termux, 99% of the population will not care at all

appendix-rock 2y ago
Add several more 9s to that.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
Sounds like this "99%" segment of the population are not relevant to a discussion of this topic: corporate-controlled operating systems.
NotPractical 2y ago
I see this kind of sentiment on HN a lot and it's weird to me. Like, what's the issue with discussing on a hacker forum ways that Google is making Android worse for hackers? Especially considering the alternative is iOS and it's much worse in that regard.

samyar 2y ago

bro is paranoid

exe34 2y ago
it's not paranoia when they're out to get you. these companies have made it clear time and time again, control and profits are the only things they care about - not the effort that you put in to produce something useful to others. they will break it at every opportunity to make a quick buck.
abenga 2y ago
Rightfully so.

nsonha 2y ago

no you are not running Linux with those, if so, people would not be so excited about pKVM, or Samsung's Linux on DEX

Xeamek 2y ago

>They need to ve rebuilt with our "library" Doesn't termux already require all its packages to be compiled against android NDKs?

nolist_policy 2y ago
Yes, to link against Android libc.

dustyventure 2y ago

I'm inclined to suggest walking directly into their trap, gradually developing all the missing apps of a mobile-linux phone and then introducing a wine-like layer that emulates their trap on Linux mobile..

fredgrott 2y ago

No, there underneath is a migration plan being implemented...legacy Android will run sand boxed Linux apps to match Fuchsia offerings....first OEM Fuchsia device is 2028.

brokensegue 2y ago
Isn't fuchsia dead?

pella 2y ago

> We can already run almost all Linux apps via other solutions with Rooting. "Docker on Android " https://gist.github.com/FreddieOliveira/efe850df7ff3951cb62d74bd770dce27 https://gist.github.com/FreddieOliveira/efe850df7ff3951cb62d...