7 ms·

Is this actually happening? I have seen this idea thrown out a lot online but it always feels like a conspiracy theory to me (akin to "fine art is a tax write-o

by kvmet 2y ago

Is this actually happening? I have seen this idea thrown out a lot online but it always feels like a conspiracy theory to me (akin to "fine art is a tax write-off")

finnh 2y ago
I think it explains some of Amazon's choices, as they made multibillion dollar bets on office space and real estate in Seattle.
- coliveira 2y ago
  Yes, Amazon needs people to fill their expensive offices in Seattle, or otherwise explain to investors that they wasted billions of dollars building new offices that were used less than 5 years.
  - bruce511 2y ago
    >> otherwise explain to investors that they wasted billions of dollars building new offices that were used less than 5 years. So what? I mean companies write down things all the time. "We've revalued our $billion office and adjusted our balance sheet to match. Cause was a global pandemic which we considered as a risk factor in 2019, but it was negligible." Stock will drop a % or two for a week, then recover and move on (especially as the Amazon machine continues to print cash.) Microsoft wrote off the Nokia purchase with a shrug and the world just moved on. Explaining a change of work environment to investors seems like a pretty minor bump, not a major factor in decision making.
    - finnh 2y ago
      I agree in that I don't think explaining a write off is a problem, per se. But I do see Amazon taking a long term view of their real estate investment and saying "OK we have it in our power to make this payoff" which dynamic is not in play with most writedowns.
longnt80 2y ago
feel like that to me too I bet there are some incentives in there but it's not the whole picture. It's probably the combination of many things but mostly management that don't know how to manage people remotely, or they started to realise that most middle manager positions are obsolete/unnecessary.
JoshTriplett 2y ago
The conspiracy theory version is that it's the sole cause, rather than one of many causes.
azemetre 2y ago
This is the case for the city of Boston. The city derives the vast majority of its budget from commercial property taxes, it's why residential property taxes are so low in the city. Use to work for a company that was literally told by the city that if they don't have X amount of people in the building they will lose their tax incentives they got for having the company there. The company slowly mandated hybrid then RTO everyday in about 6 months. Got out 2 weeks before it was implemented. My coworkers were extremely jealous that I got a WFH job. Doubt Boston is alone in these propositions
- kortilla 2y ago
  Why would the city care about number of people in the office if they are deriving the money from commercial property taxes?
  - azemetre 2y ago
    I don't understand the complete calculus but Boston is facing a $500mil shortfall and the mayor is increasing taxes to makeup the shortfall: https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/boston-residents-face-28-tax-increase-as-office-values-slump https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/boston-reside... I think part of the equation is that less people are going into the office so values of buildings are going down, less people in downtown the less money that goes to all the restaurants/shops/stores during the week. I can't speak for other cities since I don't live in them but Boston has never really recovered from the pandemic in terms of office workers.
  - mvanbaak 2y ago
    - public transport - spending money in local stores - spending money on housing - spending money on local child care - etc etc etc
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    Why would the city care if no one is working downtown?
    - 2y ago
vermilingua 2y ago
“You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge. These people went to the same universities, they're on the same boards of directors, they're in the same country clubs, they have like interests, they don't need to call a meeting, they know what's good for them and they're getting it.” George Carlin: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XE3sYUJASLY https://youtube.com/watch?v=XE3sYUJASLY

by kvmet 2y ago

Is this actually happening? I have seen this idea thrown out a lot online but it always feels like a conspiracy theory to me (akin to "fine art is a tax write-off")

finnh 2y ago

I think it explains some of Amazon's choices, as they made multibillion dollar bets on office space and real estate in Seattle.

coliveira 2y ago
Yes, Amazon needs people to fill their expensive offices in Seattle, or otherwise explain to investors that they wasted billions of dollars building new offices that were used less than 5 years.
- bruce511 2y ago
  >> otherwise explain to investors that they wasted billions of dollars building new offices that were used less than 5 years. So what? I mean companies write down things all the time. "We've revalued our $billion office and adjusted our balance sheet to match. Cause was a global pandemic which we considered as a risk factor in 2019, but it was negligible." Stock will drop a % or two for a week, then recover and move on (especially as the Amazon machine continues to print cash.) Microsoft wrote off the Nokia purchase with a shrug and the world just moved on. Explaining a change of work environment to investors seems like a pretty minor bump, not a major factor in decision making.
  - finnh 2y ago
    I agree in that I don't think explaining a write off is a problem, per se. But I do see Amazon taking a long term view of their real estate investment and saying "OK we have it in our power to make this payoff" which dynamic is not in play with most writedowns.

longnt80 2y ago

feel like that to me too I bet there are some incentives in there but it's not the whole picture. It's probably the combination of many things but mostly management that don't know how to manage people remotely, or they started to realise that most middle manager positions are obsolete/unnecessary.

JoshTriplett 2y ago

The conspiracy theory version is that it's the sole cause, rather than one of many causes.

azemetre 2y ago

This is the case for the city of Boston. The city derives the vast majority of its budget from commercial property taxes, it's why residential property taxes are so low in the city. Use to work for a company that was literally told by the city that if they don't have X amount of people in the building they will lose their tax incentives they got for having the company there. The company slowly mandated hybrid then RTO everyday in about 6 months. Got out 2 weeks before it was implemented. My coworkers were extremely jealous that I got a WFH job. Doubt Boston is alone in these propositions

kortilla 2y ago
Why would the city care about number of people in the office if they are deriving the money from commercial property taxes?
- azemetre 2y ago
  I don't understand the complete calculus but Boston is facing a $500mil shortfall and the mayor is increasing taxes to makeup the shortfall: https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/boston-residents-face-28-tax-increase-as-office-values-slump https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/boston-reside... I think part of the equation is that less people are going into the office so values of buildings are going down, less people in downtown the less money that goes to all the restaurants/shops/stores during the week. I can't speak for other cities since I don't live in them but Boston has never really recovered from the pandemic in terms of office workers.
- mvanbaak 2y ago
  - public transport - spending money in local stores - spending money on housing - spending money on local child care - etc etc etc
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  Why would the city care if no one is working downtown?
  - 2y ago

vermilingua 2y ago

“You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge. These people went to the same universities, they're on the same boards of directors, they're in the same country clubs, they have like interests, they don't need to call a meeting, they know what's good for them and they're getting it.” George Carlin: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XE3sYUJASLY https://youtube.com/watch?v=XE3sYUJASLY