5 ms·

If you don't have the source code, you don't really "own" the software anyway. Any closed source software will eventually stop working due to technological chan

If you don't have the source code, you don't really "own" the software anyway. Any closed source software will eventually stop working due to technological changes, etc. I treat games as mostly consumption items. I play them for a while, and then I might as well throw them to trash if they were physical items. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't accept lack of source code anyway, just like with the OS and important personal computing software.

edgarvaldes 2y ago
OTOH I have been installing and playing _some_ games for almost 20 years on several computers using the same installer.
- benoau 2y ago
  Emulation and virtualization have solved the longevity problem and continue to do so better than ever. There is no doubt at all that games will still work in the future, and other software, as long as they don't have a hard-dependency on a dead online system.
deepsun 2y ago
Anyway it's better to have at least closed binary. Same thing with open code -- one may say that depending on its license you also may not own it. But I say it's one step better.
TheAceOfHearts 2y ago
There are teams of dedicated fans and developers that have fully reverse engineered older games' source code to allow byte for byte recompilation. If this process could be accelerated or boosted with better tooling I think that would be a huge boon for game preservation and enhancements. I'm really hopeful that long-term advancements in AI tooling will help enable faster reverse engineering of games from binary to source code.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  The goal should be getting source code released or 'leaked'.
  - philistine 2y ago
    Your comment assumes 100% of the source code for every game is out there. Most of the games released before the ubiquity of things like Github have no source code available.
ferbivore 2y ago
This is an incredibly bizarre view. Most people who play games don't consider them disposable trash. I don't quite understand why you would post this, given the context. You don't personally care about games, therefore the industry's anti-consumer actions are justifiable?
- lokar 2y ago
  I read it as an observation that regardless of license terms, 99% of gamers will loos the ability to play a game after some amount of time (10? 15? 20 years). If you accept that, the change from "buy" to "license" is not as large as it seems.
  - lll-o-lll 2y ago
    Except that it’s not true. I can play all the games of my childhood with various emulators. No source code required. Machine code has always been enough.
    - lokar 2y ago
      Right, you can. Most people can't manage that (or won't be willing to put in the effort).
      - squigz 2y ago
        It's not a complex process whatsoever? Your average consumer can figure it out.
      - ywvcbk 2y ago
        I’m sure most could if they really wanted to. They just don’t.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    License terms? Really? Which license terms, specifically, prevent me from playing a 20-year-old game on a 20-year-old machine?
asdf123qweasd 2y ago
Its sort of sad, a painting, a cultural artifact, produced by 100s of people, beloved by millions and its just tossed aside, trampled like a electronic mandala - or worser still, destroyed in its vision by trying to turn it into an addiction. Nobody will remember our names for the art we made, we will be forgotten and background-noise to other artifacts who survive deep time.
changing1999 2y ago
I mean... even if you do have the source code it will eventually stop working if you try to use it on newer stacks. The question is who is updating the software, not necessarily who owns it.
xyproto 2y ago
I see what you mean, but a counterpoint is NES games and how they can continue to be emulated. Super Mario is not open source, but it will not stop working.
remram 2y ago
Is that how you feel about owning any other item? Do you have the schematics for your toaster, your fridge, your table?
- jolmg 2y ago
  > Do you have the schematics for [...] your fridge I'm not sure about today given stuff getting "smarter", but home appliances do typically include the schematics. You typically find them inside an envelope as you disassemble the thing.
- bentley 2y ago
  There’s no intellectual property law that prohibits me from hiring an expert to reupholster my chair.
prophesi 2y ago
That's interesting in this context because GOG first started off getting good old games to work on modern hardware. I would also say that emulation of hardware has come a long ways, so a DRM-free executable may be all that you need for historic preservation, barring software that requires communicating with a server for its functionality. And even if source code is provided, it can be next to impossible to build it on your machine, so hopefully it has a docker image or what have you. Would also need to know the GPU requirement to compile it. Not saying I wouldn't want the source code to be provided, but I'd like it purely for research and modding purposes, not to make sure I can build from source 10 years from now.
tightbookkeeper 2y ago
Emulation is a thing. Dos and Nintendo games will be around forever.

edgarvaldes 2y ago

OTOH I have been installing and playing _some_ games for almost 20 years on several computers using the same installer.

benoau 2y ago
Emulation and virtualization have solved the longevity problem and continue to do so better than ever. There is no doubt at all that games will still work in the future, and other software, as long as they don't have a hard-dependency on a dead online system.

deepsun 2y ago

Anyway it's better to have at least closed binary. Same thing with open code -- one may say that depending on its license you also may not own it. But I say it's one step better.

TheAceOfHearts 2y ago

There are teams of dedicated fans and developers that have fully reverse engineered older games' source code to allow byte for byte recompilation. If this process could be accelerated or boosted with better tooling I think that would be a huge boon for game preservation and enhancements. I'm really hopeful that long-term advancements in AI tooling will help enable faster reverse engineering of games from binary to source code.

throwaway48476 2y ago
The goal should be getting source code released or 'leaked'.
- philistine 2y ago
  Your comment assumes 100% of the source code for every game is out there. Most of the games released before the ubiquity of things like Github have no source code available.

ferbivore 2y ago

This is an incredibly bizarre view. Most people who play games don't consider them disposable trash. I don't quite understand why you would post this, given the context. You don't personally care about games, therefore the industry's anti-consumer actions are justifiable?

lokar 2y ago
I read it as an observation that regardless of license terms, 99% of gamers will loos the ability to play a game after some amount of time (10? 15? 20 years). If you accept that, the change from "buy" to "license" is not as large as it seems.
- lll-o-lll 2y ago
  Except that it’s not true. I can play all the games of my childhood with various emulators. No source code required. Machine code has always been enough.
  - lokar 2y ago
    Right, you can. Most people can't manage that (or won't be willing to put in the effort).
    - squigz 2y ago
      It's not a complex process whatsoever? Your average consumer can figure it out.
    - ywvcbk 2y ago
      I’m sure most could if they really wanted to. They just don’t.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  License terms? Really? Which license terms, specifically, prevent me from playing a 20-year-old game on a 20-year-old machine?

asdf123qweasd 2y ago

Its sort of sad, a painting, a cultural artifact, produced by 100s of people, beloved by millions and its just tossed aside, trampled like a electronic mandala - or worser still, destroyed in its vision by trying to turn it into an addiction. Nobody will remember our names for the art we made, we will be forgotten and background-noise to other artifacts who survive deep time.

changing1999 2y ago

I mean... even if you do have the source code it will eventually stop working if you try to use it on newer stacks. The question is who is updating the software, not necessarily who owns it.

xyproto 2y ago

I see what you mean, but a counterpoint is NES games and how they can continue to be emulated. Super Mario is not open source, but it will not stop working.

remram 2y ago

Is that how you feel about owning any other item? Do you have the schematics for your toaster, your fridge, your table?

jolmg 2y ago
> Do you have the schematics for [...] your fridge I'm not sure about today given stuff getting "smarter", but home appliances do typically include the schematics. You typically find them inside an envelope as you disassemble the thing.
bentley 2y ago
There’s no intellectual property law that prohibits me from hiring an expert to reupholster my chair.

prophesi 2y ago

That's interesting in this context because GOG first started off getting good old games to work on modern hardware. I would also say that emulation of hardware has come a long ways, so a DRM-free executable may be all that you need for historic preservation, barring software that requires communicating with a server for its functionality. And even if source code is provided, it can be next to impossible to build it on your machine, so hopefully it has a docker image or what have you. Would also need to know the GPU requirement to compile it. Not saying I wouldn't want the source code to be provided, but I'd like it purely for research and modding purposes, not to make sure I can build from source 10 years from now.

tightbookkeeper 2y ago

Emulation is a thing. Dos and Nintendo games will be around forever.