11 ms·

>If you do not change your lifestyle, for real and not just superficially, then you will relapse with a vengeance. Longterm glp-1 agonist research doesn't agre

>If you do not change your lifestyle, for real and not just superficially, then you will relapse with a vengeance. Longterm glp-1 agonist research doesn't agree with this. > but you have to continue that lifestyle after stopping the drug. Why stop the drug? >Will Ozempic users have developed the personal discipline to prevent themselves from relapse without the drug - or will they forever be on a the yo-yo of weight gain/loss? A small % of people are able to achieve significant weight loss with diet and exercise. And an even smaller % of that group are able to maintain it for the long term. We've been trying to solve obesity this way for a 50 years and have bubkis to show for it. If someone has high cholesterol we give them a statin, if they have high blood sugar we give them diabetes. Now if they're overweight we give them ozempic.

Alupis 2y ago
> Why stop the drug? Why would you want to continue using a drug for the rest of your life? > Longterm glp-1 agonist research doesn't agree with this. Please explain. If you stop using the drug, because you've achieved your goals, what stops you from relapsing other than your own personal habits and lifestyle? > A small % of people are able to achieve significant weight loss with diet and exercise. And an even smaller % of that group are able to maintain it for the long term. We've been trying to solve obesity this way for a 50 years and have bubkis to show for it. If someone has high cholesterol we give them a statin, if they have high blood sugar we give them diabetes. Now if they're overweight we give them ozempic. Yes, a pill for this, a pill for that... and there's no chance we'll discover these drugs have negative effects when used by a person for 50 years.
- JamesBarney 2y ago
  > Why would you want to continue using a drug for the rest of your life? It's better than being obese. This is true of most drugs for chronic conditions. very few of them are curative, almost all of them treat the condition. > Longterm glp-1 agonist research doesn't agree with this. Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant with continued treatment you don't rebound. > Yes, a pill for this, a pill for that... and there's no chance we'll discover these drugs have negative effects when used by a person for 50 years. They might have negative side effects but obesity has very large negative side effects. I would be incredibly surprised if any of these drugs that have been used in diabetes treatment for a long time have anywhere close to the negative side effects of obesity.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - catlikesshrimp 2y ago
      False. (All) People crave for food. Some people have stronger craving than others. In healthy people you call it "hunger". In obese people it is more like an addiction. Do you know people can be addictes to sex and to work, too? If you insist on the choice argument, the only way an addict can stop consuming is locking himself in a room and throwing away the key. Other than that, much help is needed, many changes are needed, and even chemicals are needed. "Choice" is victim blaming
      - gooosle 2y ago
        All you're saying is the it's harder to make some choices depending on situation. They are still 100% choices. Choices don't have to be trivially easy.
    - JamesBarney 2y ago
      How much less likely do you think someone with high self control is to not be obese? 12%. Which shows that your intuitions about obesity and the causes are probably wrong. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3717171/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3717171/
      - gooosle 2y ago
        Someone with high self control that wants to be non-obese, has a nearly 100% chance of accomplishing that goal. Literally by definition.
    - mort96 2y ago
      Lacking the ability to do something is, typically, not a choice.
      - 2y ago
- tikhonj 2y ago
  > Why would you want to continue using a drug for the rest of your life? Because it is a substantial net benefit to your life? Same reason I might want to continue with, say, a regular exercise routine or meditation practice.
data_spy 2y ago
The research says you gain the weight back: "For the two in every five patients who discontinue the treatments within a year, according to a 2024 JAMA study, this means that they are likely to rebound to their original weight with less muscle and a higher body fat percentage." The other issue is the muscle loss on being on these drugs as "Clinical data shows that 25 per cent of weight loss from Eli Lilly’s shot resulted from a reduction in lean body mass, including muscle, while 40 per cent of Novo Nordisk’s jab was due to a drop in lean body mass." Via https://www.ft.com/content/094cbf1f-c5a8-4bb3-a43c-988bd8e2dea9 https://www.ft.com/content/094cbf1f-c5a8-4bb3-a43c-988bd8e2d...
- JamesBarney 2y ago
  Sorry I meant with continued use of the treatment you don't regain the weight. I agree if you stop taking the medication your weight will rebound.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    Right, so we doom some portion of the population to forever take a pill from big pharma? How is that acceptable with anyone? The goal should be to use Ozempic until you are in a better place to manage things yourself. The goal should not be to get people hooked on Ozempic for their entire lives. Perhaps Ozempic prescriptions should come with prescribed exercise with check-in and monitoring, or something.
    - rootusrootus 2y ago
      > doom some portion of the population to forever take a pill from big pharma That is temporary. The effects are real. The fact that you don't think big pharma should profit handsomely for making it happen is not the only alternative. Before too long semaglutide, as one example, will be out of patent and available as a generic. It won't cost a thousand bucks a month to big pharma, it'll be practically free. Cheap enough that most insurance plans will likely subsidize it all the way to zero out-of-pocket cost just because the ROI is so good.
    - 2y ago
lizardlena 2y ago
> A small % of people are able to achieve significant weight loss with diet and exercise. And an even smaller % of that group are able to maintain it for the long term. Ozempic is only fighting symptoms of that, not the root of the problem which is the stigma around weightgain, being a big person, just fatphobia being extremly generalized and a lot of shame surrounding weight. While it's amazing for people who have medical conditions making them gain a lot of weight, just saying that they should take ozempic will not change people gaining too much weight. It's not anything like high cholesterol or high blood sugar in most cases.
- JamesBarney 2y ago
  Fighting the symptoms of what? Taking ozempic will definitely keep people from gaining weight and will help them lose weight.
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  A few questions: Can you qualify what you consider to be a 'symptom' vs a 'condition'? Is high cholesterol a symptom of something, or a condition itself? What about high blood sugar? Would you say that acid reflux is a symptom or a condition? Is a person that takes Prilosec daily to treat bad reflux treating the symptoms and not the underlying condition? What about people using asthma inhalers, or epipens: symptom or condition? Are people allowed to use the medicines if their underlying conditions are not being treated?
- fortran77 2y ago
  > While it's amazing for people who have medical conditions making them gain a lot of weight, You mean matter is created out of thin air because of a "medical condition" and not by eating too much food?
justinclift 2y ago
> ... if they have high blood sugar we give them diabetes. That sounds like a hell of a treatment plan. o_O
- bregma 2y ago
  It doesn't work. I keep trying to get off the diabetes and I just relapse after a few weeks. It doesn't help that my body tries to hide the glucose everywhere, like attached to hemoglobin or in my liver in the form of glycogen so it can share a hit with me first thing every morning. Nope, not going back to the doctor that gave me diabetes. That was a mistake.

Alupis 2y ago

> Why stop the drug? Why would you want to continue using a drug for the rest of your life? > Longterm glp-1 agonist research doesn't agree with this. Please explain. If you stop using the drug, because you've achieved your goals, what stops you from relapsing other than your own personal habits and lifestyle? > A small % of people are able to achieve significant weight loss with diet and exercise. And an even smaller % of that group are able to maintain it for the long term. We've been trying to solve obesity this way for a 50 years and have bubkis to show for it. If someone has high cholesterol we give them a statin, if they have high blood sugar we give them diabetes. Now if they're overweight we give them ozempic. Yes, a pill for this, a pill for that... and there's no chance we'll discover these drugs have negative effects when used by a person for 50 years.

JamesBarney 2y ago
> Why would you want to continue using a drug for the rest of your life? It's better than being obese. This is true of most drugs for chronic conditions. very few of them are curative, almost all of them treat the condition. > Longterm glp-1 agonist research doesn't agree with this. Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant with continued treatment you don't rebound. > Yes, a pill for this, a pill for that... and there's no chance we'll discover these drugs have negative effects when used by a person for 50 years. They might have negative side effects but obesity has very large negative side effects. I would be incredibly surprised if any of these drugs that have been used in diabetes treatment for a long time have anywhere close to the negative side effects of obesity.
- Alupis 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - catlikesshrimp 2y ago
    False. (All) People crave for food. Some people have stronger craving than others. In healthy people you call it "hunger". In obese people it is more like an addiction. Do you know people can be addictes to sex and to work, too? If you insist on the choice argument, the only way an addict can stop consuming is locking himself in a room and throwing away the key. Other than that, much help is needed, many changes are needed, and even chemicals are needed. "Choice" is victim blaming
    - gooosle 2y ago
      All you're saying is the it's harder to make some choices depending on situation. They are still 100% choices. Choices don't have to be trivially easy.
  - JamesBarney 2y ago
    How much less likely do you think someone with high self control is to not be obese? 12%. Which shows that your intuitions about obesity and the causes are probably wrong. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3717171/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3717171/
    - gooosle 2y ago
      Someone with high self control that wants to be non-obese, has a nearly 100% chance of accomplishing that goal. Literally by definition.
  - mort96 2y ago
    Lacking the ability to do something is, typically, not a choice.
    - 2y ago
tikhonj 2y ago
> Why would you want to continue using a drug for the rest of your life? Because it is a substantial net benefit to your life? Same reason I might want to continue with, say, a regular exercise routine or meditation practice.

data_spy 2y ago

The research says you gain the weight back: "For the two in every five patients who discontinue the treatments within a year, according to a 2024 JAMA study, this means that they are likely to rebound to their original weight with less muscle and a higher body fat percentage." The other issue is the muscle loss on being on these drugs as "Clinical data shows that 25 per cent of weight loss from Eli Lilly’s shot resulted from a reduction in lean body mass, including muscle, while 40 per cent of Novo Nordisk’s jab was due to a drop in lean body mass." Via https://www.ft.com/content/094cbf1f-c5a8-4bb3-a43c-988bd8e2dea9 https://www.ft.com/content/094cbf1f-c5a8-4bb3-a43c-988bd8e2d...

JamesBarney 2y ago
Sorry I meant with continued use of the treatment you don't regain the weight. I agree if you stop taking the medication your weight will rebound.
- Alupis 2y ago
  Right, so we doom some portion of the population to forever take a pill from big pharma? How is that acceptable with anyone? The goal should be to use Ozempic until you are in a better place to manage things yourself. The goal should not be to get people hooked on Ozempic for their entire lives. Perhaps Ozempic prescriptions should come with prescribed exercise with check-in and monitoring, or something.
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    > doom some portion of the population to forever take a pill from big pharma That is temporary. The effects are real. The fact that you don't think big pharma should profit handsomely for making it happen is not the only alternative. Before too long semaglutide, as one example, will be out of patent and available as a generic. It won't cost a thousand bucks a month to big pharma, it'll be practically free. Cheap enough that most insurance plans will likely subsidize it all the way to zero out-of-pocket cost just because the ROI is so good.
  - 2y ago

lizardlena 2y ago

> A small % of people are able to achieve significant weight loss with diet and exercise. And an even smaller % of that group are able to maintain it for the long term. Ozempic is only fighting symptoms of that, not the root of the problem which is the stigma around weightgain, being a big person, just fatphobia being extremly generalized and a lot of shame surrounding weight. While it's amazing for people who have medical conditions making them gain a lot of weight, just saying that they should take ozempic will not change people gaining too much weight. It's not anything like high cholesterol or high blood sugar in most cases.

JamesBarney 2y ago
Fighting the symptoms of what? Taking ozempic will definitely keep people from gaining weight and will help them lose weight.
Eisenstein 2y ago
A few questions: Can you qualify what you consider to be a 'symptom' vs a 'condition'? Is high cholesterol a symptom of something, or a condition itself? What about high blood sugar? Would you say that acid reflux is a symptom or a condition? Is a person that takes Prilosec daily to treat bad reflux treating the symptoms and not the underlying condition? What about people using asthma inhalers, or epipens: symptom or condition? Are people allowed to use the medicines if their underlying conditions are not being treated?
fortran77 2y ago
> While it's amazing for people who have medical conditions making them gain a lot of weight, You mean matter is created out of thin air because of a "medical condition" and not by eating too much food?

justinclift 2y ago

> ... if they have high blood sugar we give them diabetes. That sounds like a hell of a treatment plan. o_O

bregma 2y ago
It doesn't work. I keep trying to get off the diabetes and I just relapse after a few weeks. It doesn't help that my body tries to hide the glucose everywhere, like attached to hemoglobin or in my liver in the form of glycogen so it can share a hit with me first thing every morning. Nope, not going back to the doctor that gave me diabetes. That was a mistake.