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To my knowledge the “big” chrome engine alternatives aren’t either. I know that Vivaldi and Brave plan on keeping around v2 as long as it is economically feasib

To my knowledge the “big” chrome engine alternatives aren’t either. I know that Vivaldi and Brave plan on keeping around v2 as long as it is economically feasible

echoangle 2y ago
This sounds like Android phone manufacturers making fun of apple for removing the headphone jack and then doing it themselves a year later. Are they seriously going to maintain V2 support for a relatively small percentage of Powerusers which probably are mostly already using Firefox anyways? The point of being economically infeasible is probably in a month or so.
- therein 2y ago
  I think it comes down to how aggressive Chrome will be at changing the internal APIs that it uses. They could choose to make it a very expensive patch to maintain. But I think they would have to go out of their way to do that.
- mgiampapa 2y ago
  Firefox (and uBlock and BPC etc) works great on Andriod, but you have to disable Chrome to get Google apps to play nice.
zamalek 2y ago
Though it is less of an issue for those two, given that they have built-in adblocking. Still a laudable effort.
- sunshowers 2y ago
  At least when I last tested, Vivaldi on Android's adblocking is pretty far behind uBlock Origin -- it doesn't get nearly as many anti-adblock interstitials as it should.
- creesch 2y ago
  While adblocking has gotten most of the focus, it isn't the only functionality that is being limited or made more complicated. One of my favorite extensions is still not available for MV3 because of complications: https://github.com/openstyles/stylus/issues/1430 https://github.com/openstyles/stylus/issues/1430
  - zamalek 2y ago
    Yes, hence "less of an issue," not "not an issue."
- unethical_ban 2y ago
  At this point, I wonder why Firefox doesn't have a vivaldi-like tracker and ad block interface. Perhaps it has to do with being a Google-funded browser. I wonder how hard that would be to implement for someone who knew how to do it? Or if the code for that in vivaldi is open source?
  - Kye 2y ago
    It does. Click the little shield in the address bar. I assume it blocks some ads even if it's not as effective as uBlock Origin.
    - zamalek 2y ago
      It blocks trackers, which means ads usually get caught up in the net. It's anyone's guess if the ones that makes it through aren't tracking, or are successfully evading (I'd wager the latter).
luuurker 2y ago
Aren't these v2 extensions being removed from Chrome's store? If so, are the alternatives based on Chromium running their own store?
- mastazi 2y ago
  Yeah that's the problem. I used to be on Brave but having to download v2-only extensions[1] manually from each developer's website was a pain. I am on a Firefox-based browser now and extensions are synced across all my computers and it just works. [1] while pre-existing v2 extensions are still on the store at least for now (e.g. https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin/cjpal... ) newer ones haven't been able to be added to the store for a long time already, e.g. see https://libredirect.github.io/faq.html#chrome_web_store https://libredirect.github.io/faq.html#chrome_web_store
Sophira 2y ago
Are you certain? The last I heard about it from Vivaldi[0], they were only going to keep the MV2 code around so long as it's in the upstream codebase: > We will keep Manifest v2 for as long as it’s still available in Chromium. We expect to drop support in June 2025, but we may maintain it longer or be forced to drop support for it sooner, depending on the precise nature of the changes to the code. Note that June 2025 is the same date Google plans to drop support completely[1]. [0] https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-future-proofed-with-its-built-in-functionality/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-futur... [1] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/mv2-deprecation-timeline https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...
- yborg 2y ago
  Vivaldi team does not respond to any comments asking about ongoing v2 manifest support; safe to assume it's gone as soon as it's out of Chromium upstream. Given Tetzchner's continual messaging on how important user privacy is to Vivaldi it seems like a strange decision, but I don't know how much effort would be required to maintain the support. They're a small team, so it would be understandable if they would just say it's too hard, but instead they have avoided the topic entirely, which suggests they agree with the direction.
  - Raed667 2y ago
    Or they just don't want to admit publicly that they're too small to maintain a fork when it diverges this much
    - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
      Well Vivaldi is open source, right? Personally I would be reaching out to Brave, who already plans on maintaining V2 support, and see about a joint venture with a forked chromium.
      - Sophira 2y ago
        Vivaldi is not open-source: https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser...
red_admiral 2y ago
I think the supermium chrome fork plans to keep V2 in.
FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
Microsoft Edge announced the move to Manifest v3 back in 2020 and stopped accepting new code on v2 back in 2022... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/extensions-chromium/developer-guide/manifest-v3 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/extensions-...
Springtime 2y ago
Brave is an odd one. They've publicly stated[1] they plan to support parts of Manifest v2 for a handful of popular addons (uBlock Origin included) by making limited patches, but they make no promises. It seems Shields was their main focus for MV3 mitigation, much like Vivaldi's now native content blocker made for the same reason (though Vivaldi has said[2] they won't be supporting MV2 past the last Chromium build that includes it). [1] https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/ https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/ [2] https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-future-proofed-with-its-built-in-functionality/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-futur...
- christophilus 2y ago
  Why use uBlock on Brave when Brave already blocks ads natively?
  - tyingq 2y ago
    uBlock does have some things that are pretty unique, and useful outside of ads for some websites. Element Zapper is a good example. https://github.com/gorhill/ublock/wiki/Element-zapper https://github.com/gorhill/ublock/wiki/Element-zapper
  - yesbut 2y ago
    Does brave also block YouTube ads like ublock origin does?
sebazzz 2y ago
That is easy talking as long as it is still a config flag, then after a compile-time flag. Once the internal APIs for MV2 or where MV2 get removed or changed it becomes very difficult to maintain. Never mind the possible security issues you introduce, but won’t get so quickly discovered.

To my knowledge the “big” chrome engine alternatives aren’t either. I know that Vivaldi and Brave plan on keeping around v2 as long as it is economically feasible

echoangle 2y ago

This sounds like Android phone manufacturers making fun of apple for removing the headphone jack and then doing it themselves a year later. Are they seriously going to maintain V2 support for a relatively small percentage of Powerusers which probably are mostly already using Firefox anyways? The point of being economically infeasible is probably in a month or so.

therein 2y ago
I think it comes down to how aggressive Chrome will be at changing the internal APIs that it uses. They could choose to make it a very expensive patch to maintain. But I think they would have to go out of their way to do that.
mgiampapa 2y ago
Firefox (and uBlock and BPC etc) works great on Andriod, but you have to disable Chrome to get Google apps to play nice.

zamalek 2y ago

Though it is less of an issue for those two, given that they have built-in adblocking. Still a laudable effort.

sunshowers 2y ago
At least when I last tested, Vivaldi on Android's adblocking is pretty far behind uBlock Origin -- it doesn't get nearly as many anti-adblock interstitials as it should.
creesch 2y ago
While adblocking has gotten most of the focus, it isn't the only functionality that is being limited or made more complicated. One of my favorite extensions is still not available for MV3 because of complications: https://github.com/openstyles/stylus/issues/1430 https://github.com/openstyles/stylus/issues/1430
- zamalek 2y ago
  Yes, hence "less of an issue," not "not an issue."
unethical_ban 2y ago
At this point, I wonder why Firefox doesn't have a vivaldi-like tracker and ad block interface. Perhaps it has to do with being a Google-funded browser. I wonder how hard that would be to implement for someone who knew how to do it? Or if the code for that in vivaldi is open source?
- Kye 2y ago
  It does. Click the little shield in the address bar. I assume it blocks some ads even if it's not as effective as uBlock Origin.
  - zamalek 2y ago
    It blocks trackers, which means ads usually get caught up in the net. It's anyone's guess if the ones that makes it through aren't tracking, or are successfully evading (I'd wager the latter).

luuurker 2y ago

Aren't these v2 extensions being removed from Chrome's store? If so, are the alternatives based on Chromium running their own store?

mastazi 2y ago
Yeah that's the problem. I used to be on Brave but having to download v2-only extensions[1] manually from each developer's website was a pain. I am on a Firefox-based browser now and extensions are synced across all my computers and it just works. [1] while pre-existing v2 extensions are still on the store at least for now (e.g. https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin/cjpal... ) newer ones haven't been able to be added to the store for a long time already, e.g. see https://libredirect.github.io/faq.html#chrome_web_store https://libredirect.github.io/faq.html#chrome_web_store

Sophira 2y ago

Are you certain? The last I heard about it from Vivaldi[0], they were only going to keep the MV2 code around so long as it's in the upstream codebase: > We will keep Manifest v2 for as long as it’s still available in Chromium. We expect to drop support in June 2025, but we may maintain it longer or be forced to drop support for it sooner, depending on the precise nature of the changes to the code. Note that June 2025 is the same date Google plans to drop support completely[1]. [0] https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-future-proofed-with-its-built-in-functionality/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-futur... [1] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/mv2-deprecation-timeline https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...

yborg 2y ago
Vivaldi team does not respond to any comments asking about ongoing v2 manifest support; safe to assume it's gone as soon as it's out of Chromium upstream. Given Tetzchner's continual messaging on how important user privacy is to Vivaldi it seems like a strange decision, but I don't know how much effort would be required to maintain the support. They're a small team, so it would be understandable if they would just say it's too hard, but instead they have avoided the topic entirely, which suggests they agree with the direction.
- Raed667 2y ago
  Or they just don't want to admit publicly that they're too small to maintain a fork when it diverges this much
  - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
    Well Vivaldi is open source, right? Personally I would be reaching out to Brave, who already plans on maintaining V2 support, and see about a joint venture with a forked chromium.
    - Sophira 2y ago
      Vivaldi is not open-source: https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser...

red_admiral 2y ago

I think the supermium chrome fork plans to keep V2 in.

FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago

Microsoft Edge announced the move to Manifest v3 back in 2020 and stopped accepting new code on v2 back in 2022... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/extensions-chromium/developer-guide/manifest-v3 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/extensions-...

Springtime 2y ago

Brave is an odd one. They've publicly stated[1] they plan to support parts of Manifest v2 for a handful of popular addons (uBlock Origin included) by making limited patches, but they make no promises. It seems Shields was their main focus for MV3 mitigation, much like Vivaldi's now native content blocker made for the same reason (though Vivaldi has said[2] they won't be supporting MV2 past the last Chromium build that includes it). [1] https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/ https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/ [2] https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-future-proofed-with-its-built-in-functionality/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/manifest-v3-update-vivaldi-is-futur...

christophilus 2y ago
Why use uBlock on Brave when Brave already blocks ads natively?
- tyingq 2y ago
  uBlock does have some things that are pretty unique, and useful outside of ads for some websites. Element Zapper is a good example. https://github.com/gorhill/ublock/wiki/Element-zapper https://github.com/gorhill/ublock/wiki/Element-zapper
- yesbut 2y ago
  Does brave also block YouTube ads like ublock origin does?

sebazzz 2y ago

That is easy talking as long as it is still a config flag, then after a compile-time flag. Once the internal APIs for MV2 or where MV2 get removed or changed it becomes very difficult to maintain. Never mind the possible security issues you introduce, but won’t get so quickly discovered.