4 ms·

Yes, there was a legion of "IT Contractors" that were effectively salaried workers in all but a few main factors: 1. Their self labelling as "Contractors"

Yes, there was a legion of "IT Contractors" that were effectively salaried workers in all but a few main factors: 1. Their self labelling as "Contractors" 2. Their employment rights 3. Tax. And everyone knew this was the case. You'd have people working 2, 3 or more years at a company and people at the company wouldn't even know they were technically contracting. Of course when there was little or no enforcement, it was rampant. The act of shifting liability to the client was a work of genius to clear out all these disguised employees. Big Companies went from incentivised to dis-incentivised to engage in this practice. You can still contract "inside IR35" too, you just need to pay tax as such. Of course companies would rather engage "outside IR35", but any "barriers" are just clarifications about what a contractor is. "Why can't I act just as an employer/employee would but not pay employers' NI" is not a reasonable position.

casenmgreen 2y ago
Inside IR35 does not in fact exist. Every contracting advert which lists inside IR35 actually means "umbrella company". Agencies in my experience do not in fact even understand there is a difference. This means you cannot use your company, or the accountant you've had for decades, and you must now pay a third party (the umbrella), and you have little choice about the umbrella - the agency will require you to use one of the two or three they present, with whom they have agreements and get a percentage. It's a rigged game. Everyone is dipping their fingers in the pie, and the person at the end who gets it in the pants is the guy doing the actual work.
- xnorswap 2y ago
  Of course "Outside IR35" doesn't really exist either, it's just "contracting", but companies find it useful to have labels to clarify their position. I agree I wouldn't touch the kind of umbrella arrangements you're describing, but short-term or set-term employment contracts do exist too, although usually come about from circumstances different to advertising for contractors.

casenmgreen 2y ago

Inside IR35 does not in fact exist. Every contracting advert which lists inside IR35 actually means "umbrella company". Agencies in my experience do not in fact even understand there is a difference. This means you cannot use your company, or the accountant you've had for decades, and you must now pay a third party (the umbrella), and you have little choice about the umbrella - the agency will require you to use one of the two or three they present, with whom they have agreements and get a percentage. It's a rigged game. Everyone is dipping their fingers in the pie, and the person at the end who gets it in the pants is the guy doing the actual work.

xnorswap 2y ago
Of course "Outside IR35" doesn't really exist either, it's just "contracting", but companies find it useful to have labels to clarify their position. I agree I wouldn't touch the kind of umbrella arrangements you're describing, but short-term or set-term employment contracts do exist too, although usually come about from circumstances different to advertising for contractors.