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The problem with speaking in generalities (about religion, or other) is that you likely have, or present, an incomplete picture, and one which fails to cover th

The problem with speaking in generalities (about religion, or other) is that you likely have, or present, an incomplete picture, and one which fails to cover the very wide variety of things under that topic. For example your categorization of "cannot tell fantasy from reality" would not be a good description of say a buddhist." Equally binding a view of mental health to religion seems a stretch. Perhaps you have experienced that, but I suspect that connection is not universal. I didn't downvote you, I say these things to explain why you likely were downvoted. Not because your post was about religion, but because your viewpoint is both unnecessarily broad, and kinda missed the point. The point was that having an experienced advocate on your side, who understands the process, who isn't under the mental strain of a recent terminal diagnosis, can assist you with good decisions. If you are in a community of faith, and it's likely that the leaders in that community have walked this path before. If you are not then seek that person from wherever you are in community.

sqeaky 2y ago
> Equally binding a view of mental health to religion seems a stretch. Perhaps you have experienced that, but I suspect that connection is not universal. I am saying that in the US the stigma against taking mental health seriously is structural. Consider the amount of voters who think demonic possession is real (tens of millions of people) don't vote to fund mental health services. There are millions of our fellow Americans who are real people and think mental illness is punishment from god or think homosexuality or transexuality is a choice and a sin. We shouldn't start on abortion, but every argument against choice has its roots in religion. These people have made a huge impact on healthcare and baked in tons of little decisions into healthcare that impact all of everytime we interact with the healthcare system. Live in a state where depression meds aren't covered, or maybe only some are? Might be them? Clearly I am discussing in the US context, as such buddhism isn't a practical and a corner-case. You can pretend I am not referring to it (even though reincarnation is clearly problematic for people attached to this life based on evidence).
- bruce511 2y ago
  Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment. Certainly the US Christian approach to mental health US not reflective of non US Christians and certainly not other religions. My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things.
  - sqeaky 2y ago
    > My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things. People who think demonic possession is real (again, I am asserting tens of millsions of americans and probablly close to a billion worldwide) are operating in good faith. They actually think that stuff is real and think that locking up or torturing mentally ill people is a good solution. They honestly that actually think torturing people to remove demons is good because they believe in things like souls and think these have a role to play in medicine. > Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment. Yes, it does, but this US centric very capitalistic place to discuss tech stuff. So I am just trying to exclude fantasy because with how much we know it can't help more than it hurts.
    - nickff 2y ago
      Was your original comment talking about ‘religious people’, or ‘American Christians who believe in demonic possession’? You seem to be shifting the subject to a favored target, rather than discussing the comment you originally replied to.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        That’s the problem with HN comment threads: if you try to make a general point and use broad generalities, people will object and point out counterexamples to nit pick against those generalities. But, instead if you go into specifics, people will nit pick those specifics. You can’t win. It’s an inevitable part of arguing with software engineers who get paid to find the missing negative sign in 1M lines if code: you’re going up against pedants and nit pickers. I understood OP’s general point as: bringing religion, particularly US Christianity, into life and death decisions is fraught due to its practitioners’ general and typical inability to separate fantasy from reality. With the disclaimer that there are always degrees and exceptions. Sure, it’s a spicy take, but I don’t think he needs to get piled on like he has in this thread.

sqeaky 2y ago

> Equally binding a view of mental health to religion seems a stretch. Perhaps you have experienced that, but I suspect that connection is not universal. I am saying that in the US the stigma against taking mental health seriously is structural. Consider the amount of voters who think demonic possession is real (tens of millions of people) don't vote to fund mental health services. There are millions of our fellow Americans who are real people and think mental illness is punishment from god or think homosexuality or transexuality is a choice and a sin. We shouldn't start on abortion, but every argument against choice has its roots in religion. These people have made a huge impact on healthcare and baked in tons of little decisions into healthcare that impact all of everytime we interact with the healthcare system. Live in a state where depression meds aren't covered, or maybe only some are? Might be them? Clearly I am discussing in the US context, as such buddhism isn't a practical and a corner-case. You can pretend I am not referring to it (even though reincarnation is clearly problematic for people attached to this life based on evidence).

bruce511 2y ago
Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment. Certainly the US Christian approach to mental health US not reflective of non US Christians and certainly not other religions. My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things.
- sqeaky 2y ago
  > My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things. People who think demonic possession is real (again, I am asserting tens of millsions of americans and probablly close to a billion worldwide) are operating in good faith. They actually think that stuff is real and think that locking up or torturing mentally ill people is a good solution. They honestly that actually think torturing people to remove demons is good because they believe in things like souls and think these have a role to play in medicine. > Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment. Yes, it does, but this US centric very capitalistic place to discuss tech stuff. So I am just trying to exclude fantasy because with how much we know it can't help more than it hurts.
  - nickff 2y ago
    Was your original comment talking about ‘religious people’, or ‘American Christians who believe in demonic possession’? You seem to be shifting the subject to a favored target, rather than discussing the comment you originally replied to.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      That’s the problem with HN comment threads: if you try to make a general point and use broad generalities, people will object and point out counterexamples to nit pick against those generalities. But, instead if you go into specifics, people will nit pick those specifics. You can’t win. It’s an inevitable part of arguing with software engineers who get paid to find the missing negative sign in 1M lines if code: you’re going up against pedants and nit pickers. I understood OP’s general point as: bringing religion, particularly US Christianity, into life and death decisions is fraught due to its practitioners’ general and typical inability to separate fantasy from reality. With the disclaimer that there are always degrees and exceptions. Sure, it’s a spicy take, but I don’t think he needs to get piled on like he has in this thread.