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I have a PHEV and I genuienly believe this is the best combination of both, it's so practical with upsides of both drivetrains, but also let's not kid ourselves

I have a PHEV and I genuienly believe this is the best combination of both, it's so practical with upsides of both drivetrains, but also let's not kid ourselves - PHEVs are vastly more complicated than either just plain ICE or EV cars, you have a lot more stuff that can go wrong. I deal with it by just buying extended warranty for as long as they let me lol, but it's definitely a concern with them.

Lwerewolf 2y ago
The Prius and other HSD cars (i.e anything with a power-split device of the Toyota variety - input-split PSD) are some of, if not flat out the most reliable and simple ICE cars. Permanent atkinson-cycle engine, no turbos because there's no exhaust gas pressure to drive them in the first place (and if there was, it'd be an inefficiency to be rooted out), bulletproof starter/generator especially since the ls600h (double-sided cooling of IGBTs >> no usual IGBT packaging degradation-related failure modes - this was NOT the setup on the 3rd gen prius), still a very efficient power transfer from the engine to the wheels (a big percent is still transferred mechanically), etc, etc. Adding a bigger battery to those isn't a whole lot of increased complexity. The only issue is making a PHEV that has the same performance characteristics in both EV and hybrid mode - not that it hasn't been done. Specifically on HSD cars, the two electric motors combined, or even just MG2 (the "motor") have way more power than you'd assume - they actually function as an AC-AC converter, converting a significant portion of the engine's output power from mechanical to electric and back to mechanical again. It's essentially the way the eCVT works. Therefore, with a battery (and buck-boost converter) that can support such a load, they can propel the car alone way more than adequately - with a speed limit to protect the "generator" from too high RPM, due to the way the HSD works. Anyways, it absolutely can be done and it absolutely can be way simpler. If it's a case of a typical modern ICE with a big battery and a motor thrown in somewhere that makes it "hybrid"-ish - i.e. all the ICE complexity + the EV "complexity" (minus the classic starter/alternator) - yeah, no thanks. IMO: Good examples - the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV. Bad examples - C63 AMG (the PHEV version).
- robocat 2y ago
  > bulletproof starter I was told this is not true for 2006 Alphard hybrid (I have one). ~USD1000 part (usually old Toyotas have cheaper parts). And beware that older hybrids use small (e.g. 50Wh) NiMH batteries - I think they started to change to Lithium in 2017 or something
  - CarVac 2y ago
    The Alphard hybrid had a belt CVT, rather than a power-split-device hybrid. https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/21-11-20_faq_hybrid_thsc_en.htm https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/21-11-20_faq_hybrid_thsc_e... "Hybrid repair experts have called the first generation Estima (AHR10) Toyota's most problematic hybrid vehicle ever."
wiredfool 2y ago
I think a PHEV would be ideal for me -- Bimodal use, mostly a few km trips, and then a few 1000km trips/yr. The long trips are the ones where we wind up filling the car, so space inside/towing is important. (We've got a 7 seater, used to be a renault grand scenic, now a ford galaxy). OTOH, one of the last times I rented a car, they 'upgraded' me to a PHEV, and I wasn't impressed. It was a tight fit with the kids + luggage, and we didn't even have the dog along. Fuel economy was well worse than plain old diesel, because it turns out when they give you a PHEV with 0km in the battery, it's not much of a hybrid. (This was a Volvo S60).
- gambiting 2y ago
  Ours is an XC60 T8 and yeah, I do 90% of my day to day driving in EV mode, then few very long distance trips on fuel. But yeah, not much use if it's not charged.

Lwerewolf 2y ago

The Prius and other HSD cars (i.e anything with a power-split device of the Toyota variety - input-split PSD) are some of, if not flat out the most reliable and simple ICE cars. Permanent atkinson-cycle engine, no turbos because there's no exhaust gas pressure to drive them in the first place (and if there was, it'd be an inefficiency to be rooted out), bulletproof starter/generator especially since the ls600h (double-sided cooling of IGBTs >> no usual IGBT packaging degradation-related failure modes - this was NOT the setup on the 3rd gen prius), still a very efficient power transfer from the engine to the wheels (a big percent is still transferred mechanically), etc, etc. Adding a bigger battery to those isn't a whole lot of increased complexity. The only issue is making a PHEV that has the same performance characteristics in both EV and hybrid mode - not that it hasn't been done. Specifically on HSD cars, the two electric motors combined, or even just MG2 (the "motor") have way more power than you'd assume - they actually function as an AC-AC converter, converting a significant portion of the engine's output power from mechanical to electric and back to mechanical again. It's essentially the way the eCVT works. Therefore, with a battery (and buck-boost converter) that can support such a load, they can propel the car alone way more than adequately - with a speed limit to protect the "generator" from too high RPM, due to the way the HSD works. Anyways, it absolutely can be done and it absolutely can be way simpler. If it's a case of a typical modern ICE with a big battery and a motor thrown in somewhere that makes it "hybrid"-ish - i.e. all the ICE complexity + the EV "complexity" (minus the classic starter/alternator) - yeah, no thanks. IMO: Good examples - the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV. Bad examples - C63 AMG (the PHEV version).

robocat 2y ago
> bulletproof starter I was told this is not true for 2006 Alphard hybrid (I have one). ~USD1000 part (usually old Toyotas have cheaper parts). And beware that older hybrids use small (e.g. 50Wh) NiMH batteries - I think they started to change to Lithium in 2017 or something
- CarVac 2y ago
  The Alphard hybrid had a belt CVT, rather than a power-split-device hybrid. https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/21-11-20_faq_hybrid_thsc_en.htm https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/21-11-20_faq_hybrid_thsc_e... "Hybrid repair experts have called the first generation Estima (AHR10) Toyota's most problematic hybrid vehicle ever."

wiredfool 2y ago

I think a PHEV would be ideal for me -- Bimodal use, mostly a few km trips, and then a few 1000km trips/yr. The long trips are the ones where we wind up filling the car, so space inside/towing is important. (We've got a 7 seater, used to be a renault grand scenic, now a ford galaxy). OTOH, one of the last times I rented a car, they 'upgraded' me to a PHEV, and I wasn't impressed. It was a tight fit with the kids + luggage, and we didn't even have the dog along. Fuel economy was well worse than plain old diesel, because it turns out when they give you a PHEV with 0km in the battery, it's not much of a hybrid. (This was a Volvo S60).

gambiting 2y ago
Ours is an XC60 T8 and yeah, I do 90% of my day to day driving in EV mode, then few very long distance trips on fuel. But yeah, not much use if it's not charged.