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> to the British War Cabinet in 1945 [...] we have persuaded the outside world to lend us upwards of the prodigious total of £3,000 million. The very size of th

> to the British War Cabinet in 1945 [...] we have persuaded the outside world to lend us upwards of the prodigious total of £3,000 million. The very size of these sterling debts is itself a protection. The old saying holds. Owe your banker £1,000 and you are at his mercy; owe him £1 million and the position is reversed. Curious. That leverage lies in hope of some repayment, yes? But my very fuzzy recollection (surfed a tome on financing WW2 years ago), is the US "loans" were made without informed hope of repayment - it was just politically unacceptable in the US to say that up front. So while there were assorted small post-war repayments (often non-monetary - leases and such), the bulk was written off. Does the size of an unrepayable debt affect negotiations on the size of a token repayment?

edent 2y ago
I think you are mistaken. The UK only finished paying off these loans recently https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-pays-off-final-instalment-of-us-loan-after-61-years-430118.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-pay...
- recursivecaveat 2y ago
  The wiki page for 'lend-lease' says the equipment and supplies was literally lent for the duration of war. ie "here's 10 tons of food, some oil, and a jeep, please give back whatever's left after you win." It claims the 2006 payment was the last settlement for when they sold what was left in Britain to the British after the war for pennies on the dollar in lieu of actually trying to return it. I always thought 'lend-lease' was a debt-for-supplies swap and not a literal lending of war material.
- mncharity 2y ago
  > In December 1940, [...] the British were no longer able to pay for supplies. [...] Lend-Lease [...] supplies it needed to fight Germany, but would not insist upon being paid immediately > Instead, the United States would “lend” the supplies to the British, deferring payment. When payment eventually did take place, the emphasis would not be on payment in dollars. The tensions and instability engendered by inter-allied war debts in the 1920s and 1930s had demonstrated that it was unreasonable to expect that virtually bankrupt European nations would be able to pay for every item they had purchased from the United States. Instead, payment would primarily take the form of a “consideration” granted by Britain to the United States. After many months of negotiation, the United States and Britain agreed, in Article VII of the Lend-Lease agreement they signed, that this consideration would primarily consist of joint action directed towards the creation of a liberalized international economic order in the postwar world.[1] EDIT: Oops - that article refers to postwar loans. The TFA might be referring to non-lend-lease wartime debt. But that might have been refinanced by... It's late. Edit about to expire. Don't know. [1] https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/lend-lease https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/lend-lease
- mncharity 2y ago
  Mistaken is very possible. The quote's 3kM looks similar to UK sterling balance debt at the end of ww2[1], and to the 4kM of that article's loan. [1] cite I haven't read: https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1947v03/d6#:~:text=During%20and%20after%20the%20war,its%20international%20balance%20of%20payments https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1947v03/d6....
Solstinox 2y ago
The transfer of wealth from the UK to the US as a result of WW1 and WW2 debts is one of the more substantial wealth transfers in history.
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  Simply reparations for 1776 and 1812!
- mncharity 2y ago
  Nod. Well, world to UK to US. With an industrial and imperial giant harvesting the wealth of the world, and then impoverishing itself, in part, to the US. I'd love to see Sankey diagrams of it all.

edent 2y ago

I think you are mistaken. The UK only finished paying off these loans recently https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-pays-off-final-instalment-of-us-loan-after-61-years-430118.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-pay...

recursivecaveat 2y ago
The wiki page for 'lend-lease' says the equipment and supplies was literally lent for the duration of war. ie "here's 10 tons of food, some oil, and a jeep, please give back whatever's left after you win." It claims the 2006 payment was the last settlement for when they sold what was left in Britain to the British after the war for pennies on the dollar in lieu of actually trying to return it. I always thought 'lend-lease' was a debt-for-supplies swap and not a literal lending of war material.
mncharity 2y ago
> In December 1940, [...] the British were no longer able to pay for supplies. [...] Lend-Lease [...] supplies it needed to fight Germany, but would not insist upon being paid immediately > Instead, the United States would “lend” the supplies to the British, deferring payment. When payment eventually did take place, the emphasis would not be on payment in dollars. The tensions and instability engendered by inter-allied war debts in the 1920s and 1930s had demonstrated that it was unreasonable to expect that virtually bankrupt European nations would be able to pay for every item they had purchased from the United States. Instead, payment would primarily take the form of a “consideration” granted by Britain to the United States. After many months of negotiation, the United States and Britain agreed, in Article VII of the Lend-Lease agreement they signed, that this consideration would primarily consist of joint action directed towards the creation of a liberalized international economic order in the postwar world.[1] EDIT: Oops - that article refers to postwar loans. The TFA might be referring to non-lend-lease wartime debt. But that might have been refinanced by... It's late. Edit about to expire. Don't know. [1] https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/lend-lease https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/lend-lease
mncharity 2y ago
Mistaken is very possible. The quote's 3kM looks similar to UK sterling balance debt at the end of ww2[1], and to the 4kM of that article's loan. [1] cite I haven't read: https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1947v03/d6#:~:text=During%20and%20after%20the%20war,its%20international%20balance%20of%20payments https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1947v03/d6....

Solstinox 2y ago

The transfer of wealth from the UK to the US as a result of WW1 and WW2 debts is one of the more substantial wealth transfers in history.

Der_Einzige 2y ago
Simply reparations for 1776 and 1812!
mncharity 2y ago
Nod. Well, world to UK to US. With an industrial and imperial giant harvesting the wealth of the world, and then impoverishing itself, in part, to the US. I'd love to see Sankey diagrams of it all.