5 ms·

Right but differences in values for a business is definitely reason enough to give up your patronage.

KoolKat23 2y ago
Unless it's egregious, it's likely to be hypocritical. Are those same people buying mobile phones (cobalt is being used, guess where and who mines that) or using Amazon (poorer working conditions relatively speaking)? Or communicating via post, and buying from the local guy who imports their products (and has a big carbon footprint)? The real world is grey.
- consteval 2y ago
  It doesn't really matter, because perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good. You're correct the world is gray, but if you're able to make a product switch without too much effort then go for it. I mean, if I reduce my plastic use because I stop buying product X then that's still better (in my eyes) than if I did nothing. Or if Company Y has some egregious political ties, I cut them off, but Company Z is a huge conglomerate so I can't cut them off. Still a better deal than doing nothing.
  - KoolKat23 2y ago
    But you can cut them off, you choose not to. You don't have to buy from Amazon, its just more convenient. You could buy a Fairphone but you don't. And compare Google and Kagi? Monopoly bad or Employee bad, which do you choose? As I say unless its egregious. It's a nice idea but doesn't work in practice there's always trade offs.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      So if I don't use Google and Apple (which is true), you approve me rejecting Kagi?
      - KoolKat23 2y ago
        You're missing my point. No one and no company is infallible. It's hypocritical, because if you dig deep enough you will find something that doesn't "align to your values".
        fsflover 2y ago
        It's impossible to 100% follow any value system. It doesn't mean you can forget about any values. Perfection is the enemy of the good. So I don't see your point. All compromises come with a cost (effort, money, lack of features). Everybody chooses which cost they can afford, as it should be.
        KoolKat23 2y ago
        I understand perfection is the enemy of good but if you can't reach perfection, good exists on both sides of the coin. It's purely tribal thinking i.e. this one is on my side so I can't go near that one.
        consteval 2y ago
        > good exists on both sides of the coin No, not really. Some sides of the coin are just bad. I get very frustrated at this "tribal thinking" notion that I hear a lot these days. It's not bad to have values and then at least try to stick to those values. If someone doesn't like something they shouldn't be forced to endure it. I see this with so-called "cancel culture" too. It's not a cancel culture if you say something offensive and people stop listening. They're not trying to hurt you, that's not their intention. They just didn't like it so instead they go listen/watch something they DO like. That's predictable. I mean, what's the end goal here? I use a product I don't even like just for the fun of it? Really? But I don't even like it... After Chick-fil-a openly and vehemently opposed gay marriage in 2015 (and after!), I stopped eating there. And guess what? I don't miss it. I'm not worse off, at all. If anything, I'm better off, because the food is unhealthy anyway. Boom, it's that easy.
        2y ago

Unless it's egregious, it's likely to be hypocritical. Are those same people buying mobile phones (cobalt is being used, guess where and who mines that) or using Amazon (poorer working conditions relatively speaking)? Or communicating via post, and buying from the local guy who imports their products (and has a big carbon footprint)? The real world is grey.

consteval 2y ago
It doesn't really matter, because perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good. You're correct the world is gray, but if you're able to make a product switch without too much effort then go for it. I mean, if I reduce my plastic use because I stop buying product X then that's still better (in my eyes) than if I did nothing. Or if Company Y has some egregious political ties, I cut them off, but Company Z is a huge conglomerate so I can't cut them off. Still a better deal than doing nothing.
- KoolKat23 2y ago
  But you can cut them off, you choose not to. You don't have to buy from Amazon, its just more convenient. You could buy a Fairphone but you don't. And compare Google and Kagi? Monopoly bad or Employee bad, which do you choose? As I say unless its egregious. It's a nice idea but doesn't work in practice there's always trade offs.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    So if I don't use Google and Apple (which is true), you approve me rejecting Kagi?
    - KoolKat23 2y ago
      You're missing my point. No one and no company is infallible. It's hypocritical, because if you dig deep enough you will find something that doesn't "align to your values".
      - fsflover 2y ago
        It's impossible to 100% follow any value system. It doesn't mean you can forget about any values. Perfection is the enemy of the good. So I don't see your point. All compromises come with a cost (effort, money, lack of features). Everybody chooses which cost they can afford, as it should be.
        KoolKat23 2y ago
        I understand perfection is the enemy of good but if you can't reach perfection, good exists on both sides of the coin. It's purely tribal thinking i.e. this one is on my side so I can't go near that one.
        consteval 2y ago
        > good exists on both sides of the coin No, not really. Some sides of the coin are just bad. I get very frustrated at this "tribal thinking" notion that I hear a lot these days. It's not bad to have values and then at least try to stick to those values. If someone doesn't like something they shouldn't be forced to endure it. I see this with so-called "cancel culture" too. It's not a cancel culture if you say something offensive and people stop listening. They're not trying to hurt you, that's not their intention. They just didn't like it so instead they go listen/watch something they DO like. That's predictable. I mean, what's the end goal here? I use a product I don't even like just for the fun of it? Really? But I don't even like it... After Chick-fil-a openly and vehemently opposed gay marriage in 2015 (and after!), I stopped eating there. And guess what? I don't miss it. I'm not worse off, at all. If anything, I'm better off, because the food is unhealthy anyway. Boom, it's that easy.
        2y ago