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Depending on your viewpoint and what “counts”, king is probably the oldest in a loose non-specific way. Though this did lead me down a rabbit hope where I found

Depending on your viewpoint and what “counts”, king is probably the oldest in a loose non-specific way. Though this did lead me down a rabbit hope where I found an interesting bit of trivia. The Akkadian word for king, “šar”, is suspiciously close to the Slavic word for monarch, “tsar”. I can’t find any concrete evidence of a connection, but hey, it’s fun to ponder whether it’s coincidental or not.

arethuza 2y ago
Isn't "tsar" derived from "Caesar" which was originally just someone's name?
bee_rider 2y ago
I thought tsar was derived from Caesar? (Or is that just a folk etymology?)
arrosenberg 2y ago
There is no connection. Tsar and Kaiser are both derived from the name Caesar, which became a royal title (along with Augustus) in the 300s under Diocletian.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jihadjihad 2y ago
Doesn't seem related--looks like šar is Semitic in origin [0] while tsar comes to the language by way of Caesar [1]. 0: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1arrum#Akkadian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1arrum#Akkadian 1: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tsar#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tsar#Etymology
mlfreeman 2y ago
I see people pointing out the "Caesar -> tsar" link (and I've heard that myself too), but I have to wonder if Akkadian "sar" somehow became "Caesar".
- saalweachter 2y ago
  I believe "Caesar" derives from the word "caesaries", which means "hair/curls/beard-hairs". Romans at the time were using three names, the given name (Gaius), the family/clan name (Julius) and the cognomen (Caesar), which was originally a nickname that became hereditary to identify a particular branch of a family. So, the emperor of Russia was called the tsar because Gaius Julius or one of his ancestors was nicknamed "Curly" or maybe "Beardy".
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    All the statues I’ve seen of him make his hair look not so curly, and they don’t show him having a beard. This open up the possibility that many royal titles are ultimately named after some Italian guy’s magnificent chest hair (which would be hard to capture in a statue).
    - saalweachter 2y ago
      I'm with you all the way, but I'm pretty sure cognomen had transitioned from nicknames to hereditary by Gaius Julius Caesar's time. Also, clean-shaven was a relatively new fashion in Rome -- Cicero, one of Caesar's political enemies and of the previous generation, had a speech complaining about how women these days liked pretty clean-shaven younger men, and not the robust full-bearded old patricians, like they should.
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        Hopefully nobody wrote down the true source of his nickname so I can plausibly continue believing…
        NeoTar 2y ago
        Another fun idea which has been proposed is that it’s an ironic nickname - so rather than ‘Baldy’ (which is you see busts of Caesar is certainly plausible) people called him or his ancestors ‘hairy’.
BJones12 2y ago
Etymonline [0] says 'tsar' comes from Caesar, which comes from the name Caius Julius Caesar. “šar” would therefore be unrelated. [0] https://www.etymonline.com/word/Caesar https://www.etymonline.com/word/Caesar

arethuza 2y ago

Isn't "tsar" derived from "Caesar" which was originally just someone's name?

bee_rider 2y ago

I thought tsar was derived from Caesar? (Or is that just a folk etymology?)

arrosenberg 2y ago

There is no connection. Tsar and Kaiser are both derived from the name Caesar, which became a royal title (along with Augustus) in the 300s under Diocletian.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jihadjihad 2y ago

Doesn't seem related--looks like šar is Semitic in origin [0] while tsar comes to the language by way of Caesar [1]. 0: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1arrum#Akkadian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1arrum#Akkadian 1: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tsar#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tsar#Etymology

mlfreeman 2y ago

I see people pointing out the "Caesar -> tsar" link (and I've heard that myself too), but I have to wonder if Akkadian "sar" somehow became "Caesar".

saalweachter 2y ago
I believe "Caesar" derives from the word "caesaries", which means "hair/curls/beard-hairs". Romans at the time were using three names, the given name (Gaius), the family/clan name (Julius) and the cognomen (Caesar), which was originally a nickname that became hereditary to identify a particular branch of a family. So, the emperor of Russia was called the tsar because Gaius Julius or one of his ancestors was nicknamed "Curly" or maybe "Beardy".
- bee_rider 2y ago
  All the statues I’ve seen of him make his hair look not so curly, and they don’t show him having a beard. This open up the possibility that many royal titles are ultimately named after some Italian guy’s magnificent chest hair (which would be hard to capture in a statue).
  - saalweachter 2y ago
    I'm with you all the way, but I'm pretty sure cognomen had transitioned from nicknames to hereditary by Gaius Julius Caesar's time. Also, clean-shaven was a relatively new fashion in Rome -- Cicero, one of Caesar's political enemies and of the previous generation, had a speech complaining about how women these days liked pretty clean-shaven younger men, and not the robust full-bearded old patricians, like they should.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Hopefully nobody wrote down the true source of his nickname so I can plausibly continue believing…
      - NeoTar 2y ago
        Another fun idea which has been proposed is that it’s an ironic nickname - so rather than ‘Baldy’ (which is you see busts of Caesar is certainly plausible) people called him or his ancestors ‘hairy’.

BJones12 2y ago

Etymonline [0] says 'tsar' comes from Caesar, which comes from the name Caius Julius Caesar. “šar” would therefore be unrelated. [0] https://www.etymonline.com/word/Caesar https://www.etymonline.com/word/Caesar