4 ms·

What happens to the unhealthy Americans? What happens to the Americans who are too poor they cannot pay health insurance and the cost of medicine/surgery. I thi

What happens to the unhealthy Americans? What happens to the Americans who are too poor they cannot pay health insurance and the cost of medicine/surgery. I think only the wealthiest Americans have much more money in their bank accounts than they would in Europe.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago
Death and disease are not real, my mind zones them out. I never remember when i was the last time at the dentist, so why include that part in my lifes plan? That is just a blindspot of everyones mental model. They parked a whole scaming theme park in that in the us.
sickofparadox 2y ago
This is a misconception. Even in the poorest state here in the US, the median income is far more than most countries in Europe, pre tax[1,2]. And unlike what the internet says, we do have government programs that provide healthcare for those that cannot afford it or are out of work. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/205960/median-household-income-in-mississippi/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/205960/median-household-... [2] https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/08/european-average-salary-rankings-where-does-your-country-stand https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/08/european-averag...
- hollerith 2y ago
  Agreed. There are many reasons to prefer living in Europe to the US, but "more money in their bank accounts" of non-wealthy people is certainly not one of them even though the American must sometimes use the bank account to pay for things that are provided by the government in Europe.
  - jajko 2y ago
    Unless we talk about Switzerland. But that's like 2% of the continent so what you say is valid. And given too left-leaning and fanatical green-deal-at-all-costs push from Brussels economical situation won't get better, in contrary. They could be pouring money into defense, its not like in 20 years russia will stop wanting to subjugate/murder us all. Or they could try not killing their own automobile industry so quickly. Or... EU started a slow but steady decline given changes in global economies, it will take probably a long time due to various factors but trend is clear.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      > And given too left-leaning and fanatical green-deal-at-all-costs push Investing heavily in renewable technology and R&D doesn't mean spending less on military or industrial capacity - in fact it's fairly dual use. Furthermore, US, China, SK, JP, and others manage to balance both. The issue is most EU members stopped funding their militaries following the fall of the Berlin Wall and redeployed that capital elsewhere - especially during the European Recession+Currency Crisis (1990-95), GFC (2008-11), and Eurozone Crisis (2008-2014).
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      And Switzerland is most like the US out of European countries, albeit an idealized version of the US. It has private healthcare mandated by the government, and an economy favorable to capital. It has a federal system where most of the power and spending resides with the cantons(states), and much closer to the voters. The Swiss constitution was actually modeled after that of the US.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Swiss constitution was actually modeled after that of the US “The Amercian national constitution, the Articles of Confederation, was constructed on the Swiss model of a confederacy of some over sovereign states. Then, Americans repudiated confederal government in 1787 as impotent and unworkable and adapted a new federal constitution. The opponents of the new charter, the Anti Federalists argued that a Swiss style government was still a viable model which offered the best hope for the preservation of American liberty. The Swiss themselves repudiated confederate government in 1848 using many of the same arguments Americans had marshalled against it in 1787 and adapted a Federal constitution modelled after the American constitution of 1787. After the Civil War many American state and local governments adapted constitutional reforms borrowed from the Swiss. The initiative and referendum – which continues to this hour to give the politics of California and other influential states their distinctive tone.” https://www.legalanthology.ch/hutson_swiss-and-american-state-constitutions_1991/ https://www.legalanthology.ch/hutson_swiss-and-american-stat...
        2y ago
alephnerd 2y ago
> cannot pay health insurance and the cost of medicine/surgery https://www.medicaid.gov/ https://www.medicaid.gov/ https://www.healthcare.gov/health-coverage-exemptions/forms-how-to-apply/ https://www.healthcare.gov/health-coverage-exemptions/forms-... > I think only the wealthiest Americans have much more money in their bank accounts than they would in Europe Well, you thunk wrong. Median household income in the US is $80,000 [0] and taxes like VAT are nonexistent. Throw on top of that access to subsidized plans like Medicaid or ACA plans for households that earn below the median, and most Americans come out ahead. The big issue with the US is the de facto inability to commit mental health patients to involuntary mental health holds unlike much of Europe due to the current interpretation of the 14th amendment, which has caused the mental health crisis to become a homelessness and drug crisis. That said, as a whole, most Americans live fairly comparable lives to most Western countries, as HDI shows. In fact, much of Europe has a much lower HDI than the US once you exclude Scandinavia, Germany, the British Isles, and Switzerland. When you look at a subnational level, it is the Deep South (Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas) and Appalachia (West Virginia, Kentucky) that continues to lag, but they represent less than 5% of the entire population of the US. [0] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > The big issue with the US is the de facto inability to commit mental health patients to involuntary mental health holds unlike much of Europe due to the current interpretation of the 14th amendment … Eh? Large-scale involuntary committal largely ended in Western Europe decades ago. What figures are you basing this on?
Muromec 2y ago
The God clearly doesn’t like them so it’s not worth making policy choices that take their problems into account
profeatur 2y ago
Unhealthy people get left behind in Europe all the time. I hope as a European you’ll never have to go through the hell of trying to deal with any kind of complex chronic illness. The doctors have no clue how to treat these kinds of problems, and any specialists are very few and far between. Go spend some time on forums for people dealing with chronic health problems and you’ll find many Europeans who’ve had to empty out their savings in order to get treatment.
CalRobert 2y ago
Honestly health care in Europe isn't great either. My Dutch GP seems to think acetaminophen is the cure for everything. They're decades behind on things like discussing menopause, TRT, etc.
thatfrenchguy 2y ago
Medicaid expansion has fixed this for the poorest Americans unless you live in a few red states, and ACA subsidies cap private plans at 8.5% of your income (+ cost sharing on top of that obviously, but there is a maximum per year) for the rest.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago

Death and disease are not real, my mind zones them out. I never remember when i was the last time at the dentist, so why include that part in my lifes plan? That is just a blindspot of everyones mental model. They parked a whole scaming theme park in that in the us.

sickofparadox 2y ago

This is a misconception. Even in the poorest state here in the US, the median income is far more than most countries in Europe, pre tax[1,2]. And unlike what the internet says, we do have government programs that provide healthcare for those that cannot afford it or are out of work. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/205960/median-household-income-in-mississippi/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/205960/median-household-... [2] https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/08/european-average-salary-rankings-where-does-your-country-stand https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/08/european-averag...

hollerith 2y ago
Agreed. There are many reasons to prefer living in Europe to the US, but "more money in their bank accounts" of non-wealthy people is certainly not one of them even though the American must sometimes use the bank account to pay for things that are provided by the government in Europe.
- jajko 2y ago
  Unless we talk about Switzerland. But that's like 2% of the continent so what you say is valid. And given too left-leaning and fanatical green-deal-at-all-costs push from Brussels economical situation won't get better, in contrary. They could be pouring money into defense, its not like in 20 years russia will stop wanting to subjugate/murder us all. Or they could try not killing their own automobile industry so quickly. Or... EU started a slow but steady decline given changes in global economies, it will take probably a long time due to various factors but trend is clear.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > And given too left-leaning and fanatical green-deal-at-all-costs push Investing heavily in renewable technology and R&D doesn't mean spending less on military or industrial capacity - in fact it's fairly dual use. Furthermore, US, China, SK, JP, and others manage to balance both. The issue is most EU members stopped funding their militaries following the fall of the Berlin Wall and redeployed that capital elsewhere - especially during the European Recession+Currency Crisis (1990-95), GFC (2008-11), and Eurozone Crisis (2008-2014).
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    And Switzerland is most like the US out of European countries, albeit an idealized version of the US. It has private healthcare mandated by the government, and an economy favorable to capital. It has a federal system where most of the power and spending resides with the cantons(states), and much closer to the voters. The Swiss constitution was actually modeled after that of the US.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Swiss constitution was actually modeled after that of the US “The Amercian national constitution, the Articles of Confederation, was constructed on the Swiss model of a confederacy of some over sovereign states. Then, Americans repudiated confederal government in 1787 as impotent and unworkable and adapted a new federal constitution. The opponents of the new charter, the Anti Federalists argued that a Swiss style government was still a viable model which offered the best hope for the preservation of American liberty. The Swiss themselves repudiated confederate government in 1848 using many of the same arguments Americans had marshalled against it in 1787 and adapted a Federal constitution modelled after the American constitution of 1787. After the Civil War many American state and local governments adapted constitutional reforms borrowed from the Swiss. The initiative and referendum – which continues to this hour to give the politics of California and other influential states their distinctive tone.” https://www.legalanthology.ch/hutson_swiss-and-american-state-constitutions_1991/ https://www.legalanthology.ch/hutson_swiss-and-american-stat...
      - 2y ago

alephnerd 2y ago

> cannot pay health insurance and the cost of medicine/surgery https://www.medicaid.gov/ https://www.medicaid.gov/ https://www.healthcare.gov/health-coverage-exemptions/forms-how-to-apply/ https://www.healthcare.gov/health-coverage-exemptions/forms-... > I think only the wealthiest Americans have much more money in their bank accounts than they would in Europe Well, you thunk wrong. Median household income in the US is $80,000 [0] and taxes like VAT are nonexistent. Throw on top of that access to subsidized plans like Medicaid or ACA plans for households that earn below the median, and most Americans come out ahead. The big issue with the US is the de facto inability to commit mental health patients to involuntary mental health holds unlike much of Europe due to the current interpretation of the 14th amendment, which has caused the mental health crisis to become a homelessness and drug crisis. That said, as a whole, most Americans live fairly comparable lives to most Western countries, as HDI shows. In fact, much of Europe has a much lower HDI than the US once you exclude Scandinavia, Germany, the British Isles, and Switzerland. When you look at a subnational level, it is the Deep South (Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas) and Appalachia (West Virginia, Kentucky) that continues to lag, but they represent less than 5% of the entire population of the US. [0] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

rsynnott 2y ago
> The big issue with the US is the de facto inability to commit mental health patients to involuntary mental health holds unlike much of Europe due to the current interpretation of the 14th amendment … Eh? Large-scale involuntary committal largely ended in Western Europe decades ago. What figures are you basing this on?

Muromec 2y ago

The God clearly doesn’t like them so it’s not worth making policy choices that take their problems into account

profeatur 2y ago

Unhealthy people get left behind in Europe all the time. I hope as a European you’ll never have to go through the hell of trying to deal with any kind of complex chronic illness. The doctors have no clue how to treat these kinds of problems, and any specialists are very few and far between. Go spend some time on forums for people dealing with chronic health problems and you’ll find many Europeans who’ve had to empty out their savings in order to get treatment.

CalRobert 2y ago

Honestly health care in Europe isn't great either. My Dutch GP seems to think acetaminophen is the cure for everything. They're decades behind on things like discussing menopause, TRT, etc.

thatfrenchguy 2y ago

Medicaid expansion has fixed this for the poorest Americans unless you live in a few red states, and ACA subsidies cap private plans at 8.5% of your income (+ cost sharing on top of that obviously, but there is a maximum per year) for the rest.