4 ms·
I wonder if Pontifex Maximus is the oldest title still in use.
by mongol 2y ago
I wonder if Pontifex Maximus is the oldest title still in use.
- tourmalinetaco 2y agoDepending on your viewpoint and what “counts”, king is probably the oldest in a loose non-specific way. Though this did lead me down a rabbit hope where I found an interesting bit of trivia. The Akkadian word for king, “šar”, is suspiciously close to the Slavic word for monarch, “tsar”. I can’t find any concrete evidence of a connection, but hey, it’s fun to ponder whether it’s coincidental or not.
- arethuza 2y agoIsn't "tsar" derived from "Caesar" which was originally just someone's name?
- bee_rider 2y agoI thought tsar was derived from Caesar? (Or is that just a folk etymology?)
- arrosenberg 2y agoThere is no connection. Tsar and Kaiser are both derived from the name Caesar, which became a royal title (along with Augustus) in the 300s under Diocletian.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jihadjihad 2y agoDoesn't seem related--looks like šar is Semitic in origin [0] while tsar comes to the language by way of Caesar [1]. 0: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1arrum#Akkadian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1arrum#Akkadian 1: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tsar#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tsar#Etymology
- mlfreeman 2y agoI see people pointing out the "Caesar -> tsar" link (and I've heard that myself too), but I have to wonder if Akkadian "sar" somehow became "Caesar".
- saalweachter 2y agoI believe "Caesar" derives from the word "caesaries", which means "hair/curls/beard-hairs". Romans at the time were using three names, the given name (Gaius), the family/clan name (Julius) and the cognomen (Caesar), which was originally a nickname that became hereditary to identify a particular branch of a family. So, the emperor of Russia was called the tsar because Gaius Julius or one of his ancestors was nicknamed "Curly" or maybe "Beardy".
- bee_rider 2y agoAll the statues I’ve seen of him make his hair look not so curly, and they don’t show him having a beard. This open up the possibility that many royal titles are ultimately named after some Italian guy’s magnificent chest hair (which would be hard to capture in a statue).
- saalweachter 2y agoI'm with you all the way, but I'm pretty sure cognomen had transitioned from nicknames to hereditary by Gaius Julius Caesar's time. Also, clean-shaven was a relatively new fashion in Rome -- Cicero, one of Caesar's political enemies and of the previous generation, had a speech complaining about how women these days liked pretty clean-shaven younger men, and not the robust full-bearded old patricians, like they should.
- bee_rider 2y agoHopefully nobody wrote down the true source of his nickname so I can plausibly continue believing…
- 2y ago
- BJones12 2y agoEtymonline [0] says 'tsar' comes from Caesar, which comes from the name Caius Julius Caesar. “šar” would therefore be unrelated. [0] https://www.etymonline.com/word/Caesar https://www.etymonline.com/word/Caesar
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> wonder if Pontifex Maximus is the oldest title still in use The titles Kaiser and Czar literally derive from Cæsar. Meanwhile, we still maintain consuls in diplomatic relations between countries who often have Senate houses filled with Senators.
- bee_rider 2y agoI guess if Caesar was borrowing from the Pontifex Maximus, that title must pre-date those based on his name.
- tempodox 2y agoCaesar was the name of Gaius Iulius, not his title. That came later. Pontifex maximus was an honorific title before Caesar's name became one.
- toyg 2y agoTechnically, the current Pontifex Maximus is (or at least claims to be) the official inheritor of the original title (which is very likely to pre-date the creation of the surname Caesar in the Julia family). That's not the case for "senator", which turned into a generic word and it's not directly connected to the Senate of the Roman Republic.
- felipelemos 2y agoPharaoh predates it for some thousand years.
- mitthrowaway2 2y agoWhere is that title still being used?
- slater 2y agoProbably the same places 'Pontifex Maximus' is still in use.
- Ifkaluva 2y ago"Pontifex Maximus" was originally the high priest of Jupiter in Rome, dating all the way back to the Roman monarchy and before the Roman republic. "Pontifex Maximus" is currently the official title of the pope (in a sense, still the highest priest in Rome). I don't think anybody still has the title "Pharaoh".
- mr_toad 2y agoFor a while the Pharaoh did actually reside in Rome, starting with Caesar Augustus (who was also Pontifex Maximus). Augustus was hailed as a god by both the Roman imperial cult and the pharaonic cult. Maximinus Daza (the eastern Roman emperor during the Tetrarchy) was the last holder of the title Paraoh, and I think he reigned from Nicomedia, in Anatolia. It’s funny that Pharaoh died out with the rise of christianity, but Pontifex lived on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_pharaoh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_pharaoh
- himinlomax 2y agoWho's the pharaoh currently residing in the Vatican?
- nvader 2y agoI would suggest Emperor of Japan, which started (according to legend) in 660 BC. I don't know if that has been continuous, though.
- pie420 2y ago[flagged]
- dragonmost 2y agoOne of them is believable at face value. Your comment doesn't add to the conversation without disproving parent's point.