3 ms·

> Most software businesses don’t need a bunch of Picassos, they need house painters with spray guns and buckets of off-white. This doesn't add anything to the

> Most software businesses don’t need a bunch of Picassos, they need house painters with spray guns and buckets of off-white. This doesn't add anything to the rest of the comment, does it? It insults the developers with the implication that they think they're so good when they aren't. When the problem being discussed has nothing to do with how good they are in the first place.

alwa 2y ago
To me it doesn’t seem to speak at all to “how good” anybody is, just to the nature of the work the job demands. A fine artist will paint a better portrait, but they might not be the right hire to get a housing development painted and shipped (so to speak). The fine artist may be less good at house painting than the tradesman, the tradesman may be less good at portraiture than the fine artist. There’s always the possibility that somebody could be good at both, but they’re orthogonal: both dip something in paint, but that’s where the similarities end.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  It's pretty dismissive to suggest that any form of software development is anywhere near as mindless as painting walls white endlessly Software has decision making constantly, even at junior levels Whitewashing walls has more or less no decisions other than what room to start in
  - Atotalnoob 2y ago
    It’s pretty dismissive of painters to say it requires no decisions. Painting requires a lot of decisions, from the coverage, speed of drying, (for additional layers) protecting the environment, ensuring equal coverage (paint guns are harder than they look for quality and consistent coverage). Cut in near non-painted features is a whole thing as well. But sure, let’s dismiss an entire trade because SWE is so special.
    - bluefirebrand 2y ago
      Painting as a trade can absolutely be more complex But what the OP said about "take this sprayer and make those walls white" is not Don't conflate the two
  - alwa 2y ago
    Oh man. I felt that way before I jumped into drywall work in a family member’s house—it’s making something white, how hard could it be? MAN did my repair job come out streaky and cracked. And it took me about 2 weeks to get through one wall and a ceiling. Poorly. I feel that way when I show up at corporate software shops too—think cubicle farms toiling at the coalface of some massive ancient line-of-business application. I would not survive there. And the company needs people who would thrive there, instead of me.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
ungreased0675 2y ago
It’s not insulting. Engineers are smart and like to solve wickedly difficult problems. But sometimes that’s not what’s needed. Let’s say I need a web form that puts user inputs into a database. Picasso goes to a cabin in the woods for two weeks to architect something that handles every edge case and is absolutely elegant. House painter knocks out something acceptable in an afternoon and works on something for paying customers the rest of time. There’s a time and place for both, but a lot of software development honestly just needs painters.
- beryilma 2y ago
  > It’s not insulting... but a lot of software development honestly just needs painters. The entire Picasso vs house painter analogy is insulting. > Picasso goes to a cabin in the woods for two weeks to architect something that handles every edge case and is absolutely elegant... If this is a product owner's idea of how software development occurs, they must be either clueless, narcissistic, cruel, or all of the above.

alwa 2y ago

To me it doesn’t seem to speak at all to “how good” anybody is, just to the nature of the work the job demands. A fine artist will paint a better portrait, but they might not be the right hire to get a housing development painted and shipped (so to speak). The fine artist may be less good at house painting than the tradesman, the tradesman may be less good at portraiture than the fine artist. There’s always the possibility that somebody could be good at both, but they’re orthogonal: both dip something in paint, but that’s where the similarities end.

bluefirebrand 2y ago
It's pretty dismissive to suggest that any form of software development is anywhere near as mindless as painting walls white endlessly Software has decision making constantly, even at junior levels Whitewashing walls has more or less no decisions other than what room to start in
- Atotalnoob 2y ago
  It’s pretty dismissive of painters to say it requires no decisions. Painting requires a lot of decisions, from the coverage, speed of drying, (for additional layers) protecting the environment, ensuring equal coverage (paint guns are harder than they look for quality and consistent coverage). Cut in near non-painted features is a whole thing as well. But sure, let’s dismiss an entire trade because SWE is so special.
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    Painting as a trade can absolutely be more complex But what the OP said about "take this sprayer and make those walls white" is not Don't conflate the two
- alwa 2y ago
  Oh man. I felt that way before I jumped into drywall work in a family member’s house—it’s making something white, how hard could it be? MAN did my repair job come out streaky and cracked. And it took me about 2 weeks to get through one wall and a ceiling. Poorly. I feel that way when I show up at corporate software shops too—think cubicle farms toiling at the coalface of some massive ancient line-of-business application. I would not survive there. And the company needs people who would thrive there, instead of me.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

ungreased0675 2y ago

It’s not insulting. Engineers are smart and like to solve wickedly difficult problems. But sometimes that’s not what’s needed. Let’s say I need a web form that puts user inputs into a database. Picasso goes to a cabin in the woods for two weeks to architect something that handles every edge case and is absolutely elegant. House painter knocks out something acceptable in an afternoon and works on something for paying customers the rest of time. There’s a time and place for both, but a lot of software development honestly just needs painters.

beryilma 2y ago
> It’s not insulting... but a lot of software development honestly just needs painters. The entire Picasso vs house painter analogy is insulting. > Picasso goes to a cabin in the woods for two weeks to architect something that handles every edge case and is absolutely elegant... If this is a product owner's idea of how software development occurs, they must be either clueless, narcissistic, cruel, or all of the above.