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Every step of the way Matt/Wordpress has really made the wrong decision in the worst way possible. He wants to have his cake (distribute free and open source so

Every step of the way Matt/Wordpress has really made the wrong decision in the worst way possible. He wants to have his cake (distribute free and open source software) and eat it to (force some companies to pay him money) which is completely incompatible.

diggan 2y ago
I think that's not really taking into consideration the situation from Matt's side. I have no bone in this fight, and I agree it looks childish to act in this manner, but on the other hand, Matt seems convinced (for better or worse) that WP Engine tried to mislead Wordpress users, and tried to damage Wordpress in other ways. I don't agree/disagree with it, but I don't read Matt's motivation as "I want more money" but more like "I want to defend this thing I've built that I feel like is being abused right now", even if I personally might not be able to see it in that light, or agree with the approach Matt is taking.
- rpgbr 2y ago
  Frankly, he and his mother[1] are the only people I know who confused WP Engine for what it’s. Also, if confusing hosting services and WordPress FOSS project were a real concern for him, the first step should be change the name of his own WordPress.com… [1] https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wp-engine/ https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wp-engine/
- tone 2y ago
  But none of his actions are sensible if he just wants to defend it. He's done more damage than WP Engine ever did. The argument that WP Engine is trying to mislead people is weak at best. We're seriously saying that talking about WordPress hosting was misleading? To whom? What about every other host that does this? Also considering the current deliberately misleading state of .com/.org/Automattic/Matt/the foundation etc, I really think they could do a lot to lead by example there before going this unnecessarily nuclear to others. I don't believe it because the reaction is totally out of line with the issue.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > But none of his actions are sensible if he just wants to defend it. He's done more damage than WP Engine ever did. Trying to see things from Matts perspective, it totally makes sense to go nuclear in order to defend what you see as your baby being under attack from a hostile for-profit entity. I don't necessarily agree that the situation actually is "WP Engine is attacking Wordpress", but clearly Matt sees it like that, no matter if it's real or not, and it does make his actions understandable, even if I disagree with them, or how weak the argument is.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      > Trying to see things from Matts perspective, it totally makes sense to go nuclear in order to defend what you see as your baby being under attack from a hostile for-profit entity. Trying to see things from the perspective of the wordpress community, and not just 1 dude: wordpress is not his baby, it is the community's baby, and he is the hostile for-profit entity attacking it with things like this checkbox, cutting off over a million community members from security updates, etc. tl;dr: nobody is saying Matt doesn't think he's always in the right (obviously he does), we're just pointing out that he isn't, and his actions hurt wordpress and the community.
      - s1mplicissimus 2y ago
        There's a fine distinction to be made between "he thinks he's right" and "he thinks he can get away with it", which both would lead to the actions we now see
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  I think Matt is very clearly in the wrong here. He's trying to impose additional restrictions on GPL-licensed software. His incorrect perspective is of little value to me. > Matt seems convinced (for better or worse) that WP Engine tried to mislead Wordpress users, and tried to damage Wordpress in other ways. He's not. > The analogy I made is they got Al Capone for taxes,” Mullenweg says. [...] Mullenweg argues one of the reasons for its success is the use of “WordPress” across its site. “That’s why we’re using that legal avenue to really, yeah, pressure them. That’s true: we are pressuring them.” He wants WP Engine to pay/contribute (while requiring audits to ensure they're properly contributing), and is just using trademark claims as the instrument to force them to pay up. https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/4/24262232/matt-mullenweg-wordpress-org-wp-engine https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/4/24262232/matt-mullenweg-w...
- albedoa 2y ago
  You truly, truly do not need to defend Matt here. What are you doing.
pyeri 2y ago
I think there is a historical pattern of same thing happening with PHP, when things like cake-php and other foo-php started gaining enough popularity to irk PHP core folks about it. Though I don't remember PHP doing an outright war against them like Matt/WP, I think they did alter their license and mention specifically to not use their name in the project in a way that associates them to PHP.

diggan 2y ago

I think that's not really taking into consideration the situation from Matt's side. I have no bone in this fight, and I agree it looks childish to act in this manner, but on the other hand, Matt seems convinced (for better or worse) that WP Engine tried to mislead Wordpress users, and tried to damage Wordpress in other ways. I don't agree/disagree with it, but I don't read Matt's motivation as "I want more money" but more like "I want to defend this thing I've built that I feel like is being abused right now", even if I personally might not be able to see it in that light, or agree with the approach Matt is taking.

rpgbr 2y ago
Frankly, he and his mother[1] are the only people I know who confused WP Engine for what it’s. Also, if confusing hosting services and WordPress FOSS project were a real concern for him, the first step should be change the name of his own WordPress.com… [1] https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wp-engine/ https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wp-engine/
tone 2y ago
But none of his actions are sensible if he just wants to defend it. He's done more damage than WP Engine ever did. The argument that WP Engine is trying to mislead people is weak at best. We're seriously saying that talking about WordPress hosting was misleading? To whom? What about every other host that does this? Also considering the current deliberately misleading state of .com/.org/Automattic/Matt/the foundation etc, I really think they could do a lot to lead by example there before going this unnecessarily nuclear to others. I don't believe it because the reaction is totally out of line with the issue.
- diggan 2y ago
  > But none of his actions are sensible if he just wants to defend it. He's done more damage than WP Engine ever did. Trying to see things from Matts perspective, it totally makes sense to go nuclear in order to defend what you see as your baby being under attack from a hostile for-profit entity. I don't necessarily agree that the situation actually is "WP Engine is attacking Wordpress", but clearly Matt sees it like that, no matter if it's real or not, and it does make his actions understandable, even if I disagree with them, or how weak the argument is.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    > Trying to see things from Matts perspective, it totally makes sense to go nuclear in order to defend what you see as your baby being under attack from a hostile for-profit entity. Trying to see things from the perspective of the wordpress community, and not just 1 dude: wordpress is not his baby, it is the community's baby, and he is the hostile for-profit entity attacking it with things like this checkbox, cutting off over a million community members from security updates, etc. tl;dr: nobody is saying Matt doesn't think he's always in the right (obviously he does), we're just pointing out that he isn't, and his actions hurt wordpress and the community.
    - s1mplicissimus 2y ago
      There's a fine distinction to be made between "he thinks he's right" and "he thinks he can get away with it", which both would lead to the actions we now see
madeofpalk 2y ago
I think Matt is very clearly in the wrong here. He's trying to impose additional restrictions on GPL-licensed software. His incorrect perspective is of little value to me. > Matt seems convinced (for better or worse) that WP Engine tried to mislead Wordpress users, and tried to damage Wordpress in other ways. He's not. > The analogy I made is they got Al Capone for taxes,” Mullenweg says. [...] Mullenweg argues one of the reasons for its success is the use of “WordPress” across its site. “That’s why we’re using that legal avenue to really, yeah, pressure them. That’s true: we are pressuring them.” He wants WP Engine to pay/contribute (while requiring audits to ensure they're properly contributing), and is just using trademark claims as the instrument to force them to pay up. https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/4/24262232/matt-mullenweg-wordpress-org-wp-engine https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/4/24262232/matt-mullenweg-w...
albedoa 2y ago
You truly, truly do not need to defend Matt here. What are you doing.

pyeri 2y ago

I think there is a historical pattern of same thing happening with PHP, when things like cake-php and other foo-php started gaining enough popularity to irk PHP core folks about it. Though I don't remember PHP doing an outright war against them like Matt/WP, I think they did alter their license and mention specifically to not use their name in the project in a way that associates them to PHP.