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As someone who stays far from politics, ratan tata and tata group in particular are the extraordinary entities who do opposite of enshitification. They dont cu

As someone who stays far from politics, ratan tata and tata group in particular are the extraordinary entities who do opposite of enshitification. They dont cut corners (like everyone) and are highly regarded as being genuinely good. Case in point. From a tax perspective, historically reliance indistries was always known for being sneaky around taxes, dodging taxes, finding loopholes and such. Tata OTOH, they are historically regarded as being much more honest and trustworthy in this regard.

profsummergig 2y ago
Tata could have been much, much bigger. But to the extent they could get away with it, they refused to pay bribes to politicians and government employees (they couldn't refuse to pay "any and all" bribes, for they would have been shut down completely if they took that posture).
- 2Gkashmiri 2y ago
  yeah. there is a difference between "Speed money" and actual bribes for officials to look the other way when you are doing clearly not legal stuff.
  - profsummergig 2y ago
    In India it's not even "speed money" that you used to have to pay (don't know how bad it is these days). It's "being allowed to play" money.
    - 2Gkashmiri 2y ago
      well yeah. if you put it that way, i can talk about indirect taxes and corruption is from even smallest of government employees all the way to the top. we call it "service charges". the officer has discretion to impose taxes, interest or penalty and on payment of service charges, discretion to look away, not mention the issue for later on. in case the issue arises, or goes to litigation, service money ensures the officer will say yes its good to any reply you give.
hinkley 2y ago
Who does the torch pass to now that he’s gone?
- mlnj 2y ago
  He was in a chairman emeritus position for many years now. Since Tata, Cyrus Mistry and Natarajan Chandrasekaran have headed the conglomerate.
  - perryizgr8 2y ago
    Cyrus Mistry died in a car crash a couple of years ago.
thisisit 2y ago
Huh. I wonder what this man “staying away from politics” using the infamous lobbyist Nira Radia for? Oh I remember lobbying and manipulating the telecom licences. It’s okay to like this guy but Tatas are considered saints because not many know their history.
- adityaathalye 2y ago
  Have you heard the Radia tapes? I have, in their entirety. They're out there to listen to, if you want. Fascinating piece of the zeitgeist. My listening suggests he lived up to his legacy of above-board, gentlemanly conduct. Compare Radia's phone calls to Ratan, with her conversations with the rest of the lot. Ratan is a master class in, well class and restraint. I think when you're that big and are so hard-wired into the real economy of a country as huge and populous as India, you can't not "play the game", so to speak. The question is do you remain human despite every incentive to turn into a self-serving gluttonous tyrant? The TATAs weren't and aren't saints. They are humans we should have more of, in those positions of wealth and power.

profsummergig 2y ago

Tata could have been much, much bigger. But to the extent they could get away with it, they refused to pay bribes to politicians and government employees (they couldn't refuse to pay "any and all" bribes, for they would have been shut down completely if they took that posture).

2Gkashmiri 2y ago
yeah. there is a difference between "Speed money" and actual bribes for officials to look the other way when you are doing clearly not legal stuff.
- profsummergig 2y ago
  In India it's not even "speed money" that you used to have to pay (don't know how bad it is these days). It's "being allowed to play" money.
  - 2Gkashmiri 2y ago
    well yeah. if you put it that way, i can talk about indirect taxes and corruption is from even smallest of government employees all the way to the top. we call it "service charges". the officer has discretion to impose taxes, interest or penalty and on payment of service charges, discretion to look away, not mention the issue for later on. in case the issue arises, or goes to litigation, service money ensures the officer will say yes its good to any reply you give.

hinkley 2y ago

Who does the torch pass to now that he’s gone?

mlnj 2y ago
He was in a chairman emeritus position for many years now. Since Tata, Cyrus Mistry and Natarajan Chandrasekaran have headed the conglomerate.
- perryizgr8 2y ago
  Cyrus Mistry died in a car crash a couple of years ago.

thisisit 2y ago

Huh. I wonder what this man “staying away from politics” using the infamous lobbyist Nira Radia for? Oh I remember lobbying and manipulating the telecom licences. It’s okay to like this guy but Tatas are considered saints because not many know their history.

adityaathalye 2y ago
Have you heard the Radia tapes? I have, in their entirety. They're out there to listen to, if you want. Fascinating piece of the zeitgeist. My listening suggests he lived up to his legacy of above-board, gentlemanly conduct. Compare Radia's phone calls to Ratan, with her conversations with the rest of the lot. Ratan is a master class in, well class and restraint. I think when you're that big and are so hard-wired into the real economy of a country as huge and populous as India, you can't not "play the game", so to speak. The question is do you remain human despite every incentive to turn into a self-serving gluttonous tyrant? The TATAs weren't and aren't saints. They are humans we should have more of, in those positions of wealth and power.