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A few minutes ago (22:48 UTC), I got three emails from HIBP about accounts of mine breached on the Internet Archive. Troy is quick! And I'm surprised the author

by Aachen 2y ago

A few minutes ago (22:48 UTC), I got three emails from HIBP about accounts of mine breached on the Internet Archive. Troy is quick! And I'm surprised the author of that alert() actually had the data as well as followed through Bit of a shame the emails contain an ad for a password manager, saying there's two easy steps to become more secure: Step 1: use our password manager (fair enough), "Step 2: Enable 2 factor authentication and store the codes inside your [password manager]" ehh now it's back to 1 factor or am I missing something? Edit: according to https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/internet-archive-hacked-data-breach-impacts-31-million-users/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/internet-arch... (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793669), Troy Hunt / HIBP already received and verified this "three days ago" as of yesterday 6pm AoE

nixosbestos 2y ago
I was going to disagree with you (and I sort of do about password managers and storing 2FA in them, but I also unlock my password manager with a yubikey). But, doesn't a DB compromise mean that the attacker would have the TOTP seed as well? It can only increase your account security elsewhere, but also not re-using password prevents the IA leak from hurting you elsewhere as well?
- Aachen 2y ago
  > I was going to disagree with you (and I sort of do about password managers and storing 2FA in them Note I'm quoting HIBP's advice from the email they've sent me! I'm absolutely not recommending to store one's 2FA secrets in the same place as the password! Even if one uses 2FA for the password manager, it stops proving "something you have" in addition to something you know and you're one unlock away from malware vacuuming it all up. The point of 2FA is to be on a separate device you need to have on hand Of course, the same logic goes for a password manager in the first place, but password reuse is a big enough problem that (for most people's threat model) it seems to be a net positive. 2FA tokens don't have that reuse issue
almyk 2y ago
I think it is safer to have 2FA in your password manager than not using 2FA at all. Because even if they got your password, if they don't have access to your password manager they can't login. If you protect your password manager with a yubikey or any other hardware key, then your 2FA inside your password manager is quite secure and convenient. But this is very individual, what your threat model is and how secure you want/need to be.
- Aachen 2y ago
  See also the considerations mentioned in the sibling thread btw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793846 > even if they got your password, if they don't have access to your password manager they can't login. Wouldn't the same argument go for a non-2fa password? What's the difference between a randomly generated 2fa secret and a randomly generated password here?
  - account42 2y ago
    An eavesdropper able to intercept connections could record your password in transit but would only get the current 2FA token which quickly becomes useless. But with TLS eavesdroppers are not a realistic concern for most people so the actual benefit is still questionable.

by Aachen 2y ago

nixosbestos 2y ago

I was going to disagree with you (and I sort of do about password managers and storing 2FA in them, but I also unlock my password manager with a yubikey). But, doesn't a DB compromise mean that the attacker would have the TOTP seed as well? It can only increase your account security elsewhere, but also not re-using password prevents the IA leak from hurting you elsewhere as well?

Aachen 2y ago
> I was going to disagree with you (and I sort of do about password managers and storing 2FA in them Note I'm quoting HIBP's advice from the email they've sent me! I'm absolutely not recommending to store one's 2FA secrets in the same place as the password! Even if one uses 2FA for the password manager, it stops proving "something you have" in addition to something you know and you're one unlock away from malware vacuuming it all up. The point of 2FA is to be on a separate device you need to have on hand Of course, the same logic goes for a password manager in the first place, but password reuse is a big enough problem that (for most people's threat model) it seems to be a net positive. 2FA tokens don't have that reuse issue

almyk 2y ago

I think it is safer to have 2FA in your password manager than not using 2FA at all. Because even if they got your password, if they don't have access to your password manager they can't login. If you protect your password manager with a yubikey or any other hardware key, then your 2FA inside your password manager is quite secure and convenient. But this is very individual, what your threat model is and how secure you want/need to be.

Aachen 2y ago
See also the considerations mentioned in the sibling thread btw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793846 > even if they got your password, if they don't have access to your password manager they can't login. Wouldn't the same argument go for a non-2fa password? What's the difference between a randomly generated 2fa secret and a randomly generated password here?
- account42 2y ago
  An eavesdropper able to intercept connections could record your password in transit but would only get the current 2FA token which quickly becomes useless. But with TLS eavesdroppers are not a realistic concern for most people so the actual benefit is still questionable.