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I can understand your point. The links points however are a bit ridiculous, they're entitled to their opinion but may be surprised to find people, at the busin

I can understand your point. The links points however are a bit ridiculous, they're entitled to their opinion but may be surprised to find people, at the businesses they use, have opinions that differ to theirs, and these businesses aren't always well-oiled machines.

arghwhat 2y ago
Differences in opinions and values (in particular what money is used for) is one thing, failing (and refusing) legal obligations and getting surprised by something as basic as tax is something else entirely.
- KoolKat23 2y ago
  Obviously legal obligations is an issue. For a consumer facing business with no lock in, the tax thing makes absolutely no difference in your life using the product. If it was really a concern you'd simply no longer have access and change search engine, until then it doesn't matter. You'd be surprised what tax issues even large billion dollar companies have.
consteval 2y ago
Right but differences in values for a business is definitely reason enough to give up your patronage.
- KoolKat23 2y ago
  Unless it's egregious, it's likely to be hypocritical. Are those same people buying mobile phones (cobalt is being used, guess where and who mines that) or using Amazon (poorer working conditions relatively speaking)? Or communicating via post, and buying from the local guy who imports their products (and has a big carbon footprint)? The real world is grey.
  - consteval 2y ago
    It doesn't really matter, because perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good. You're correct the world is gray, but if you're able to make a product switch without too much effort then go for it. I mean, if I reduce my plastic use because I stop buying product X then that's still better (in my eyes) than if I did nothing. Or if Company Y has some egregious political ties, I cut them off, but Company Z is a huge conglomerate so I can't cut them off. Still a better deal than doing nothing.
    - KoolKat23 2y ago
      But you can cut them off, you choose not to. You don't have to buy from Amazon, its just more convenient. You could buy a Fairphone but you don't. And compare Google and Kagi? Monopoly bad or Employee bad, which do you choose? As I say unless its egregious. It's a nice idea but doesn't work in practice there's always trade offs.
      - fsflover 2y ago
        So if I don't use Google and Apple (which is true), you approve me rejecting Kagi?
        KoolKat23 2y ago
        You're missing my point. No one and no company is infallible. It's hypocritical, because if you dig deep enough you will find something that doesn't "align to your values".
        fsflover 2y ago
        It's impossible to 100% follow any value system. It doesn't mean you can forget about any values. Perfection is the enemy of the good. So I don't see your point. All compromises come with a cost (effort, money, lack of features). Everybody chooses which cost they can afford, as it should be.

arghwhat 2y ago

Differences in opinions and values (in particular what money is used for) is one thing, failing (and refusing) legal obligations and getting surprised by something as basic as tax is something else entirely.

KoolKat23 2y ago
Obviously legal obligations is an issue. For a consumer facing business with no lock in, the tax thing makes absolutely no difference in your life using the product. If it was really a concern you'd simply no longer have access and change search engine, until then it doesn't matter. You'd be surprised what tax issues even large billion dollar companies have.

consteval 2y ago

Right but differences in values for a business is definitely reason enough to give up your patronage.

KoolKat23 2y ago
Unless it's egregious, it's likely to be hypocritical. Are those same people buying mobile phones (cobalt is being used, guess where and who mines that) or using Amazon (poorer working conditions relatively speaking)? Or communicating via post, and buying from the local guy who imports their products (and has a big carbon footprint)? The real world is grey.
- consteval 2y ago
  It doesn't really matter, because perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good. You're correct the world is gray, but if you're able to make a product switch without too much effort then go for it. I mean, if I reduce my plastic use because I stop buying product X then that's still better (in my eyes) than if I did nothing. Or if Company Y has some egregious political ties, I cut them off, but Company Z is a huge conglomerate so I can't cut them off. Still a better deal than doing nothing.
  - KoolKat23 2y ago
    But you can cut them off, you choose not to. You don't have to buy from Amazon, its just more convenient. You could buy a Fairphone but you don't. And compare Google and Kagi? Monopoly bad or Employee bad, which do you choose? As I say unless its egregious. It's a nice idea but doesn't work in practice there's always trade offs.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      So if I don't use Google and Apple (which is true), you approve me rejecting Kagi?
      - KoolKat23 2y ago
        You're missing my point. No one and no company is infallible. It's hypocritical, because if you dig deep enough you will find something that doesn't "align to your values".
        fsflover 2y ago
        It's impossible to 100% follow any value system. It doesn't mean you can forget about any values. Perfection is the enemy of the good. So I don't see your point. All compromises come with a cost (effort, money, lack of features). Everybody chooses which cost they can afford, as it should be.