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> A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free And here we see the ostrich. When faced with the horrors of reality, sticks its head in the sand. It’s simpler

by dartos 2y ago

> A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free And here we see the ostrich. When faced with the horrors of reality, sticks its head in the sand. It’s simpler in there.

someluccc 2y ago
If I build a movie theater and give away the tickets knowing that I can make money on ads before a movie that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something
- nosianu 2y ago
  > that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something The advertisers paying to get their ads placed in front of those eyes disagree. And ye, since another comment questions this, data or "eye-time are similar - they can be broken down to the individual. The advertisers pay some price expecting a certain number of people to see the ad, and even if data about people is sold in bulk (too) there is a price per individual. It's a simple division to see the price they pay per person to view that cinema ad, or for one person's data, even if they always purchase those in bulk. After all, they get to the bulk price by multiplying how much they are willing to pay for one individual with the expected (or in the case of data packages known) number of individuals.
  - someluccc 2y ago
    You can literally use Chrome, Workspace, Drive, Android and Maps without seeing a single ad, without an ad blocker, without EVER using google search, for free.
    - threeseed 2y ago
      Google Maps is full of local search ads and Workspaces isn't free. Also Chrome exists primarily to ensure their ads business remains healthy i.e. they have massively watered down privacy restrictions.
    - nosianu 2y ago
      Uhmm.... I have to admit that I fail to see any connection whatsoever between your original comment that I replied to (included in the reply) and your reply...
    - alt227 2y ago
      Do you realise that as soon as you go to any of those websites, your details are scraped and sold? The second you put any data in drive or worksdpace, that is scraped into LLMs and sold? Theres a reason that you have to log into a Google account to use those services, which means agreeing to their rather large TOS. Buying something doesnt necessarily mean you have to pay money for it. Your time and information is worth something too.
      - dartos 2y ago
        I don’t think they realize just how large the google data collection operation is…
      - xnx 2y ago
        > Do you realise that as soon as you go to any of those websites, your details are scraped and sold? I've never heard of Google doing this. Google sells access to and the attention of their audience. They do not sell personal data.
- hyggetrold 2y ago
  Movie theater is an interesting analogy because they make zero money on ticket sales. Usually ticket revenue pays for the cost of the movie (theaters pay the studio for the movie). The way the theaters make money is on concessions, hence why they're crazy expensive.
- consteval 2y ago
  > that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something It literally means exactly that, because you're deriving some real value (money) from 5 minutes of your eyesight. So therefore it has value.
- dartos 2y ago
  That’s literally what that means… You, the theater owner, are selling the time people are sitting in your theater in view of a large screen to advertisers. That time is literally worth something. If there were no people in the theater, the advertisers wouldn’t pay for the time. You just really don’t understand how advertising works. You’re effectively saying something like “just because people would pay for something, doesn’t mean it has any value” I have to believe that you’re an extremely skilled troll, because otherwise idk what’s going on in your head.
someluccc 2y ago
Your data is worthless. Please do tell me how much you could sell your “data” for right now.
- dartos 2y ago
  My data, sure, but the data of my entire age/racial/economic group is worth a lot to marketing firms. There’s a ton of that information in emails. That’s literally google’s business model. You think Gmail is free bc Google is nice? Come on…
  - someluccc 2y ago
    So in this transaction you’re exchanging something that is individually worthless for something that is individually valuable. Which is a bad thing and should stop. Right now! Ps: it’s also not like you’re paying so little that you could say you’re getting it for…… free
    - dartos 2y ago
      It’s really hard for me to take you seriously. You’re just poorly playing semantics to white knight for Google. Very weird. It’s a good deal for the individual, that’s why Gmail is popular. Trading something of low value for something of moderate value is not what “free” means… Say the data from me or any of my peers was worth 1/100th of a cent and we give that away… that means I am trading something of minor value for something else…
- diggernet 2y ago
  It's not worthless to companies who want to use it against me. I don't want to sell my data. I want companies to stop collecting it. In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone here wishing they could sell their data.
- alt227 2y ago
  The data of an individual may be worth something like $0.001 which is not that much to an individual. However the value is not nothing, and if you are a company with multiple billion users, that value of data can get pretty big pretty fast

by dartos 2y ago

> A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free And here we see the ostrich. When faced with the horrors of reality, sticks its head in the sand. It’s simpler in there.

someluccc 2y ago

If I build a movie theater and give away the tickets knowing that I can make money on ads before a movie that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something

nosianu 2y ago
> that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something The advertisers paying to get their ads placed in front of those eyes disagree. And ye, since another comment questions this, data or "eye-time are similar - they can be broken down to the individual. The advertisers pay some price expecting a certain number of people to see the ad, and even if data about people is sold in bulk (too) there is a price per individual. It's a simple division to see the price they pay per person to view that cinema ad, or for one person's data, even if they always purchase those in bulk. After all, they get to the bulk price by multiplying how much they are willing to pay for one individual with the expected (or in the case of data packages known) number of individuals.
- someluccc 2y ago
  You can literally use Chrome, Workspace, Drive, Android and Maps without seeing a single ad, without an ad blocker, without EVER using google search, for free.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Google Maps is full of local search ads and Workspaces isn't free. Also Chrome exists primarily to ensure their ads business remains healthy i.e. they have massively watered down privacy restrictions.
  - nosianu 2y ago
    Uhmm.... I have to admit that I fail to see any connection whatsoever between your original comment that I replied to (included in the reply) and your reply...
  - alt227 2y ago
    Do you realise that as soon as you go to any of those websites, your details are scraped and sold? The second you put any data in drive or worksdpace, that is scraped into LLMs and sold? Theres a reason that you have to log into a Google account to use those services, which means agreeing to their rather large TOS. Buying something doesnt necessarily mean you have to pay money for it. Your time and information is worth something too.
    - dartos 2y ago
      I don’t think they realize just how large the google data collection operation is…
    - xnx 2y ago
      > Do you realise that as soon as you go to any of those websites, your details are scraped and sold? I've never heard of Google doing this. Google sells access to and the attention of their audience. They do not sell personal data.
hyggetrold 2y ago
Movie theater is an interesting analogy because they make zero money on ticket sales. Usually ticket revenue pays for the cost of the movie (theaters pay the studio for the movie). The way the theaters make money is on concessions, hence why they're crazy expensive.
consteval 2y ago
> that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something It literally means exactly that, because you're deriving some real value (money) from 5 minutes of your eyesight. So therefore it has value.
dartos 2y ago
That’s literally what that means… You, the theater owner, are selling the time people are sitting in your theater in view of a large screen to advertisers. That time is literally worth something. If there were no people in the theater, the advertisers wouldn’t pay for the time. You just really don’t understand how advertising works. You’re effectively saying something like “just because people would pay for something, doesn’t mean it has any value” I have to believe that you’re an extremely skilled troll, because otherwise idk what’s going on in your head.

someluccc 2y ago

Your data is worthless. Please do tell me how much you could sell your “data” for right now.

dartos 2y ago
My data, sure, but the data of my entire age/racial/economic group is worth a lot to marketing firms. There’s a ton of that information in emails. That’s literally google’s business model. You think Gmail is free bc Google is nice? Come on…
- someluccc 2y ago
  So in this transaction you’re exchanging something that is individually worthless for something that is individually valuable. Which is a bad thing and should stop. Right now! Ps: it’s also not like you’re paying so little that you could say you’re getting it for…… free
  - dartos 2y ago
    It’s really hard for me to take you seriously. You’re just poorly playing semantics to white knight for Google. Very weird. It’s a good deal for the individual, that’s why Gmail is popular. Trading something of low value for something of moderate value is not what “free” means… Say the data from me or any of my peers was worth 1/100th of a cent and we give that away… that means I am trading something of minor value for something else…
diggernet 2y ago
It's not worthless to companies who want to use it against me. I don't want to sell my data. I want companies to stop collecting it. In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone here wishing they could sell their data.
alt227 2y ago
The data of an individual may be worth something like $0.001 which is not that much to an individual. However the value is not nothing, and if you are a company with multiple billion users, that value of data can get pretty big pretty fast