5 ms·

How Waffle House helps Southerners and FEMA judge a storm's severity

72 points by geox 2y ago

cryptoz 2y ago
I thought this index was over, as Waffle House faced legal issues? And is now closing earlier than it would have. The index fell because it became an index (what’s the name for that?)
- brianbreslin 2y ago
  Who sued them over this? staff that had been endangered? waffle house seems to be proud of this WHI and mentions it on their website even. [1] [1] https://www.wafflehouse.com/how-to-measure-a-storms-fury-one-breakfast-at-a-time/ https://www.wafflehouse.com/how-to-measure-a-storms-fury-one...
  - jabroni_salad 2y ago
    It's my understanding that WH brings in a dedicated storm team to run affected stores rather than putting the screws on their regulars during a crisis.
    - petertodd 2y ago
      That's correct: "Jump teams are made up of Waffle House contractors, construction workers, gas line experts, restaurant operators, food providers and other associates who are assembled and ready to go wherever needed at a moment's notice. Their purpose is to help relieve local Waffle House operators and employees who need to evacuate, be with their families or tend to their homes when a storm hits, and help make sure restaurants are able to open quickly after a storm or stay open during a storm" https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-hurricane-dorian.html https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-...
- hydrogen7800 2y ago
  Goodhart's Law. https://xkcd.com/2899/ https://xkcd.com/2899/
- jzemeocala 2y ago
  Kinda similar to Barbara Streisand effect.
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
See also: a new incarnation of this kind of thing a few months back, Lacking official sources, some Texans use Whataburger app to track power outages https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40927364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40927364
aidenn0 2y ago
> Golden hashbrowns, gravy-smothered biscuits and crispy waffles with a hearty helping of maple syrup are among the classic Southern comfort foods There are a lot of foods I associate with the south, but maple syrup is definitely not one of them.
- fat_cantor 2y ago
  In the south, the term "maple syrup" is shorthand for "maple-flavored sugar-based syrup-like product"
  - Fauntleroy 2y ago
    The South... and most other places.
  - aidenn0 2y ago
    It's been a while since I've been to a Waffle House, but IIRC they offer both a classic and a maple syrup.
    - phainopepla2 2y ago
      Maybe a classic flavor and a maple flavor, but real maple syrup is far too expensive. Waffle House doesn't serve it
  - getwiththeprog 2y ago
    Or 'corn based glucose product'. Sugar is too expensive!
- DowagerDave 2y ago
  It's likely maple-flavoured corn syrup, so rest easy :)
- mikestew 2y ago
  Well, what else do you suggest that I put on my fried corn mush?
- 2y ago
aidenn0 2y ago
This article is contrary to my understanding of the WHI. Waffle House doesn't know any more about a coming storm than FEMA, but how quickly (and fully) the Waffle Houses open after a storm is a good indicator of how much damage was done and how quickly the area is bouncing back.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hammock 2y ago
  The article addresses this. Referring to the origination of the formal index, "The restaurants eventually became a key feature on a color-coded map that his team provided to help the public and local officials identify where storm damage was most severe." It's not FEMA's job to develop knowledge about coming storms anyways. NOAA does that. FEMA coordinates the preparation for and response to a disaster
  - aaron695 2y ago
    [dead]
itake 2y ago
I wish the article would communicate more about how WaHo does this. I see they tend to stock their stores with generators, but is that the only thing? Does WaHo have longer shifts, reducing the need for staff missing shifts? Why is WaHo a better indicator than other services, like public transit?
- Animats 2y ago
  Here'e an old article about how they do it.[1] The Waffle House storm center.[2] They have an emergency menu mode. Only a few items are available, and those are all ones which can be prepared rapidly in bulk. Waffle House locations deliberately do not use any systems which require continuous Internet connectivity. [1] https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-hurricane-dorian.html https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-... [2] https://x.com/anothercohen/status/1843844655743688806 https://x.com/anothercohen/status/1843844655743688806
  - nobodyandproud 2y ago
    I can only imagine how long cashless businesses will take to recover, though StarLink presumably mitigates some of the on-the-ground problems.
- TheColorYellow 2y ago
  As a southerner who has also pondered this, I think it's simply the basic nature of the menu and local nature of the employees. Food is basically just pre-made batter, eggs, potatoes, and processed meat; all of which holds well and only requires limited refrigeration. Staff is pretty basic crew: Cooks and customers can order directly at the register if waiter isn't available. Add to that a culture of staying open at all costs and there you go.
- ryanchants 2y ago
  They have jump teams that come in and help get things back up and running. Since the training of the staff is standardized, jump team members can staff the restaurant and get it back up and running while the regular employees take care of personal matters.
CapitalistCartr 2y ago
I'm playing roulette with Mother Nature today. She's a wily player. The "Stay open at all costs" mentality is dangerous to employees. All but one restaurant was closed today that I could find. Their workers have personal nneeds, too. Such as waiting in lines for hours, boarding up their home, filling sandbags, packing up, and running away, all of which I did, too. Except waiting in lines for hours for sandbags. Nonetheless, that one diner, Recipe Box, was slammed, 'cuz we all wanna eat on the run. I don't know what the right answer is.
- devilbunny 2y ago
  As others have noted, they have teams of people they bring in to staff the place in case of disaster. They are, as far as I can tell, very good to their employees, who are mostly low-skill workers dealing with an often drunk and raucous clientele. But if you want to get paid in cash every week, they will do it. Waffle House isn't a great meal, even for a cheap diner, and it's not meant to be. It's hot and freshly cooked, though, and in the middle of a disaster that's something you might not be able to get at home (cf. the Mellow Mushroom owner in Asheville giving out pizza a couple of days after Helene - people like the pizza, but the quotes were all saying "it was just so nice to eat something hot"). And it's always open. People starting companies who want to build loyalty: look at them. And learn. There's no southerner who doesn't know that you can get a cheap, fresh, and adequate meal from WH when everyone else is closed. You don't have to wonder if it's a 24-hour location: they all are. You see the sign, you can go.
  - everforward 2y ago
    Can confirm; Waffle House is almost never what I want, but damned if I’m not excited every time I go because it’s 3am, I’m drunk, and I don’t have to eat Taco Bell. The reliability really is a thing. I don’t even look for hours on a Waffle House, I just assume that if I can drive there they’re open.
    - devilbunny 2y ago
      When you're slogging up I-81, just trying to do two more hours on the road before you sleep, and those yellow-and-black letters appear...
iJohnDoe 2y ago
I hope the employees are taken into consideration and are not pressured into going to work when they should be with their. Didn’t read the article, so maybe that’s an indicator as well. If the employees can go to work then the storm wasn’t so bad.
- alwa 2y ago
  It might be worth reading the article! Although a sibling comment up the page linked to a clearer description of WaHo’s disaster operations [0]. Since the chain’s operations are radically standardized, they assemble “jump teams” of repair workers and operators from out-of-region. Those are the ones operating the restaurants til local staff can get back. [0] https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-hurricane-dorian.html https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-...
  - ndiddy 2y ago
    Fun fact: Waffle House is standardized to the point that there's a single standard restaurant layout. If a location gets too busy they won't expand it because that would mess with the layout, they build a second Waffle House next to it.
    - helf 2y ago
      [dead]
DoreenMichele 2y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15105662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15105662
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
A realtime Hurricane Milton Waffle Index map https://walzr.com/waffle-house-index https://walzr.com/waffle-house-index (submittted by HNer https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793716)

72 points by geox 2y ago

I thought this index was over, as Waffle House faced legal issues? And is now closing earlier than it would have. The index fell because it became an index (what’s the name for that?)

brianbreslin 2y ago
Who sued them over this? staff that had been endangered? waffle house seems to be proud of this WHI and mentions it on their website even. [1] [1] https://www.wafflehouse.com/how-to-measure-a-storms-fury-one-breakfast-at-a-time/ https://www.wafflehouse.com/how-to-measure-a-storms-fury-one...
- jabroni_salad 2y ago
  It's my understanding that WH brings in a dedicated storm team to run affected stores rather than putting the screws on their regulars during a crisis.
  - petertodd 2y ago
    That's correct: "Jump teams are made up of Waffle House contractors, construction workers, gas line experts, restaurant operators, food providers and other associates who are assembled and ready to go wherever needed at a moment's notice. Their purpose is to help relieve local Waffle House operators and employees who need to evacuate, be with their families or tend to their homes when a storm hits, and help make sure restaurants are able to open quickly after a storm or stay open during a storm" https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-hurricane-dorian.html https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-...
hydrogen7800 2y ago
Goodhart's Law. https://xkcd.com/2899/ https://xkcd.com/2899/
jzemeocala 2y ago
Kinda similar to Barbara Streisand effect.

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

See also: a new incarnation of this kind of thing a few months back, Lacking official sources, some Texans use Whataburger app to track power outages https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40927364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40927364

aidenn0 2y ago

> Golden hashbrowns, gravy-smothered biscuits and crispy waffles with a hearty helping of maple syrup are among the classic Southern comfort foods There are a lot of foods I associate with the south, but maple syrup is definitely not one of them.

fat_cantor 2y ago
In the south, the term "maple syrup" is shorthand for "maple-flavored sugar-based syrup-like product"
- Fauntleroy 2y ago
  The South... and most other places.
- aidenn0 2y ago
  It's been a while since I've been to a Waffle House, but IIRC they offer both a classic and a maple syrup.
  - phainopepla2 2y ago
    Maybe a classic flavor and a maple flavor, but real maple syrup is far too expensive. Waffle House doesn't serve it
- getwiththeprog 2y ago
  Or 'corn based glucose product'. Sugar is too expensive!
DowagerDave 2y ago
It's likely maple-flavoured corn syrup, so rest easy :)
mikestew 2y ago
Well, what else do you suggest that I put on my fried corn mush?
2y ago

aidenn0 2y ago

This article is contrary to my understanding of the WHI. Waffle House doesn't know any more about a coming storm than FEMA, but how quickly (and fully) the Waffle Houses open after a storm is a good indicator of how much damage was done and how quickly the area is bouncing back.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hammock 2y ago
The article addresses this. Referring to the origination of the formal index, "The restaurants eventually became a key feature on a color-coded map that his team provided to help the public and local officials identify where storm damage was most severe." It's not FEMA's job to develop knowledge about coming storms anyways. NOAA does that. FEMA coordinates the preparation for and response to a disaster
- aaron695 2y ago
  [dead]

itake 2y ago

I wish the article would communicate more about how WaHo does this. I see they tend to stock their stores with generators, but is that the only thing? Does WaHo have longer shifts, reducing the need for staff missing shifts? Why is WaHo a better indicator than other services, like public transit?

Animats 2y ago
Here'e an old article about how they do it.[1] The Waffle House storm center.[2] They have an emergency menu mode. Only a few items are available, and those are all ones which can be prepared rapidly in bulk. Waffle House locations deliberately do not use any systems which require continuous Internet connectivity. [1] https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-hurricane-dorian.html https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-... [2] https://x.com/anothercohen/status/1843844655743688806 https://x.com/anothercohen/status/1843844655743688806
- nobodyandproud 2y ago
  I can only imagine how long cashless businesses will take to recover, though StarLink presumably mitigates some of the on-the-ground problems.
TheColorYellow 2y ago
As a southerner who has also pondered this, I think it's simply the basic nature of the menu and local nature of the employees. Food is basically just pre-made batter, eggs, potatoes, and processed meat; all of which holds well and only requires limited refrigeration. Staff is pretty basic crew: Cooks and customers can order directly at the register if waiter isn't available. Add to that a culture of staying open at all costs and there you go.
ryanchants 2y ago
They have jump teams that come in and help get things back up and running. Since the training of the staff is standardized, jump team members can staff the restaurant and get it back up and running while the regular employees take care of personal matters.

CapitalistCartr 2y ago

I'm playing roulette with Mother Nature today. She's a wily player. The "Stay open at all costs" mentality is dangerous to employees. All but one restaurant was closed today that I could find. Their workers have personal nneeds, too. Such as waiting in lines for hours, boarding up their home, filling sandbags, packing up, and running away, all of which I did, too. Except waiting in lines for hours for sandbags. Nonetheless, that one diner, Recipe Box, was slammed, 'cuz we all wanna eat on the run. I don't know what the right answer is.

devilbunny 2y ago
As others have noted, they have teams of people they bring in to staff the place in case of disaster. They are, as far as I can tell, very good to their employees, who are mostly low-skill workers dealing with an often drunk and raucous clientele. But if you want to get paid in cash every week, they will do it. Waffle House isn't a great meal, even for a cheap diner, and it's not meant to be. It's hot and freshly cooked, though, and in the middle of a disaster that's something you might not be able to get at home (cf. the Mellow Mushroom owner in Asheville giving out pizza a couple of days after Helene - people like the pizza, but the quotes were all saying "it was just so nice to eat something hot"). And it's always open. People starting companies who want to build loyalty: look at them. And learn. There's no southerner who doesn't know that you can get a cheap, fresh, and adequate meal from WH when everyone else is closed. You don't have to wonder if it's a 24-hour location: they all are. You see the sign, you can go.
- everforward 2y ago
  Can confirm; Waffle House is almost never what I want, but damned if I’m not excited every time I go because it’s 3am, I’m drunk, and I don’t have to eat Taco Bell. The reliability really is a thing. I don’t even look for hours on a Waffle House, I just assume that if I can drive there they’re open.
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    When you're slogging up I-81, just trying to do two more hours on the road before you sleep, and those yellow-and-black letters appear...

iJohnDoe 2y ago

I hope the employees are taken into consideration and are not pressured into going to work when they should be with their. Didn’t read the article, so maybe that’s an indicator as well. If the employees can go to work then the storm wasn’t so bad.

alwa 2y ago
It might be worth reading the article! Although a sibling comment up the page linked to a clearer description of WaHo’s disaster operations [0]. Since the chain’s operations are radically standardized, they assemble “jump teams” of repair workers and operators from out-of-region. Those are the ones operating the restaurants til local staff can get back. [0] https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-hurricane-dorian.html https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/waffle-house-stay-open-...
- ndiddy 2y ago
  Fun fact: Waffle House is standardized to the point that there's a single standard restaurant layout. If a location gets too busy they won't expand it because that would mess with the layout, they build a second Waffle House next to it.
  - helf 2y ago
    [dead]

DoreenMichele 2y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15105662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15105662

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

A realtime Hurricane Milton Waffle Index map https://walzr.com/waffle-house-index https://walzr.com/waffle-house-index (submittted by HNer https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41793716)