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I going to pretend you are actually serious about this. Let's make a strawman that actually makes it easier to suggest that this is "the same as banks". Let's
by cbsmith 14y ago
I going to pretend you are actually serious about this. Let's make a strawman that actually makes it easier to suggest that this is "the same as banks".
Let's pretend for a minute that we're dealing with a non-FDIC insured bank (like some of the original online banks), with none of the regulatory controls that obviously provide a lot of protections.
Let's pretend for a minute that the bank stupidly keeps all of its holdings as cash that are held on site at the bank. It doesn't use notes or other securities for transactions, only cash. Let's pretend that the bank also self-insures those holdings (which basically means no insurance).
Okay, so I compromise the bank's security, take every bit of cash. I disappear to some island in the Pacific with every last cent.
How badly is the bank screwed? How badly are the customers of the bank screwed?
Actually, not that badly. I only wiped out the bank's reserves. That means both the bank and its customers have a short term liquidity problem, but not necessarily a significant asset problem.
A regulated bank would have 10% of all deposits in its reserves. Unregulated banks often have far less, but let's pretend it is 10%. The bank loses 10% of its value. If it can stay solvent, then nobody loses any money, but it might take a few days before people can make withdrawals (which could cause a bank run, but that's a whole different problem). If the bank can't stay solvent, it goes bankrupt, and depositors become creditors. It'll take a while to resolve the legal process, so liquidity is killed, but when it all ends, depositors are going to get back something close to 90% of their money back.
The key thing is that the bank lends out most of the money it takes in. Even if you rob the bank of all its cash, the bulk of the "assets" of the bank are all the IOU's from lendees, which is value that is really hard to "steal", because lendees tend to only pay their lender, and then tend to do so in installments over a great deal of time.
THIS IS WRONG: Hacking Coinbase would be more akin to hacking say Visa, and redirecting all payments to you instead of the intended merchant.... if Visa's transactions were all cash based, instead of credit based... and Visa was unregulated... and even then it is kind of different because Visa is a middle man between two banks...
UPDATED: Okay, I just read they are actually storing the bitcoins in the cloud, rather than just exchange the coins between the two parties.... So actually, it's not like hacking Visa, unless Visa didn't reconcile their transactions with its customers for extended periods of time and held all of the float as cash.
- DrJokepu 14y agoSo what you're saying is that banks are more stable because only a small portion of their assets are kept as reserve? In that case, what's stopping bitcoin "depositories" such as this converting the bulk of their assets to something else as well?
- cbsmith 14y agoWell, it doesn't make them more stable, but it makes them more resilient to criminal theft. Bitcoin "depositories" open up a pretty big can of worms if they convert their assets. Part of the point of using bitcoin is not to have to use other assets. They could start lending bitcoins, but that's going to invite a lot of scrutiny, particularly from the regulators.
- cube13 14y agoThey can't do that because there is nowhere really safe to put the BTC. They cannot loan it out because nobody needs that much BTC, and it's unwise to invest it in USD or anything else because the currency's fickleness compared to USD(you could lose a lot of money, or possibly make some). The problem is that the current Bitcoin "banks" aren't really banks. They're more akin to socks under a mattress than a bank. At a very basic macro economist level, banks have two functions: 1. They are a place for clients to place their money. To incentiveize this behavior, they pay those clients interest on the money in their accounts to keep it there. 2. They take that money and give out loans to people, and charge interest over the time it takes to repay the loan. In a healthy economy, the two feed each other. Broadly speaking, the circulation of currency works like this: People/businesses take out loans. That money is used to buy things (houses, cars, short term equipment expenses, etc.). The businesses that are paid for the goods/services pay their employees, who put the money into the bank. Note that even in this situation, banks aren't entirely necessary, because people could just buy stuff, which goes to employers, who pay employees, who buy stuff... Bitcoin does not have either economy yet. Right now, it's used just to buy things, with BTC being converted to a "real" currency(USD, Euro, etc.) on both ends. So it's really just a single directional currency. So, right now, if I wanted to operate a Bitcoin bank, I'd have to convert it to USD or some other currency, and keep it totally separate from my liquid BTC wallets to mitigate the risk of getting hacked and the wallets getting stolen. Unfortunately, that's incredibly risky, because I would then have to deal with the exchange rate between BTC and USD.