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Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon -- the US could easily break all of these up. There's a huge risk to stagnation and over-optimization once these companies get a

Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon -- the US could easily break all of these up. There's a huge risk to stagnation and over-optimization once these companies get as big as they do.

christhecaribou 2y ago
They should. It’s good for the public trust, competition, and innovation. I’d even go so far as to argue it’s good for the shareholders.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I'm curious as to why you included Apple. All of the other companies bought up a bunch of potential competitors so they wouldn't get outcompeted, e.g: Facebook: Instagram, WhatsApp, Oculus Google: DoubleClick, YouTube, Android, Waze, Deep mind Amazon: Whole Foods, Audible, Zappos, Ring, One Medical Arguably, I think things would be better if a bunch of these acquisitions were never allowed in the first place. But most of Apple's acquisitions have been of the "acquihire" type where they got specific technologies to enhance their products - Beats is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that has basically remained separate. I'm not saying acquisitions are the only benchmark for breaking up big tech, but to me it feels like the places where Apple is anti-competitive (e.g. App Store) can be remedied with much smaller changes than a full break up. With the other 3 it seems easier to identify places to "cleave".
- azemetre 2y ago
  Apple has operating systems, hardware, and software. Maybe Apple should spinoff OSX into its own company? They clearly abuse their positions with OS X and their hardware to push Apple specific software that only they benefit from. If they had to separate their operating systems into another company, they would have to freely compete to put their app stores on their devices. Or even better, spin off their hardware divisions if you want. Either way Apple shouldn't be able to control their operating systems or their hardware unless they open up their devices and allow consumers easier ways to both repair their devices and install alternative operating systems on them.
  - robsh 2y ago
    Vertical integration is not monopolistic. A dairy farm can make great ice cream, like McConnell’s or Strauss. Apple’s acquisition of Beats is maybe the one that shouldn’t have been allowed since they were in competition for headphones. Most of their other acquisitions are pretty small companies with specific integrations into Apple products or services.
    - azemetre 2y ago
      Ah yes the humble dairy farmer is obviously equivalent to the trillion dollar transnational corporation. Here I am thinking that since Apple makes it harder to repair their devices or install other operating systems on them that they are in a position to abuse their marketplace, silly me!
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    I think it's not that hard of an argument to make that OS and hardware should go together - heck, Apple got praise for decades that their products worked better because they were "the seamless integration of hardware and software". I think it's a much harder argument to make that Apple should get to control all application software used on a device, and furthermore that they have a right to a cut of all revenue of app software sold for a particular device.
    - azemetre 2y ago
      I disagree, I own Apple hardware. I should be able to easily install and repair it without voiding the warranty. The fact that they make this nearly impossible is what makes their practices despicable. It's why I added they should be legally compelled by a consent decree to provide parts, schematics, and the ability to change operating systems seamlessly if they want to keep their monopoly.
- sadeshmukh 2y ago
  What completed or competes with YouTube?
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    Now I feel old. You must be too young to remember Google Video: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Video https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Video
  - mikelward 2y ago
    TikTok, Vimeo, DailyMotion, various social networks.
EasyMark 2y ago
I think that’s a bad idea, those other companies have lots of competition and haven’t abused their positions nearly as much as google has.

Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon -- the US could easily break all of these up. There's a huge risk to stagnation and over-optimization once these companies get as big as they do.

christhecaribou 2y ago

They should. It’s good for the public trust, competition, and innovation. I’d even go so far as to argue it’s good for the shareholders.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

I'm curious as to why you included Apple. All of the other companies bought up a bunch of potential competitors so they wouldn't get outcompeted, e.g: Facebook: Instagram, WhatsApp, Oculus Google: DoubleClick, YouTube, Android, Waze, Deep mind Amazon: Whole Foods, Audible, Zappos, Ring, One Medical Arguably, I think things would be better if a bunch of these acquisitions were never allowed in the first place. But most of Apple's acquisitions have been of the "acquihire" type where they got specific technologies to enhance their products - Beats is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that has basically remained separate. I'm not saying acquisitions are the only benchmark for breaking up big tech, but to me it feels like the places where Apple is anti-competitive (e.g. App Store) can be remedied with much smaller changes than a full break up. With the other 3 it seems easier to identify places to "cleave".

azemetre 2y ago
Apple has operating systems, hardware, and software. Maybe Apple should spinoff OSX into its own company? They clearly abuse their positions with OS X and their hardware to push Apple specific software that only they benefit from. If they had to separate their operating systems into another company, they would have to freely compete to put their app stores on their devices. Or even better, spin off their hardware divisions if you want. Either way Apple shouldn't be able to control their operating systems or their hardware unless they open up their devices and allow consumers easier ways to both repair their devices and install alternative operating systems on them.
- robsh 2y ago
  Vertical integration is not monopolistic. A dairy farm can make great ice cream, like McConnell’s or Strauss. Apple’s acquisition of Beats is maybe the one that shouldn’t have been allowed since they were in competition for headphones. Most of their other acquisitions are pretty small companies with specific integrations into Apple products or services.
  - azemetre 2y ago
    Ah yes the humble dairy farmer is obviously equivalent to the trillion dollar transnational corporation. Here I am thinking that since Apple makes it harder to repair their devices or install other operating systems on them that they are in a position to abuse their marketplace, silly me!
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  I think it's not that hard of an argument to make that OS and hardware should go together - heck, Apple got praise for decades that their products worked better because they were "the seamless integration of hardware and software". I think it's a much harder argument to make that Apple should get to control all application software used on a device, and furthermore that they have a right to a cut of all revenue of app software sold for a particular device.
  - azemetre 2y ago
    I disagree, I own Apple hardware. I should be able to easily install and repair it without voiding the warranty. The fact that they make this nearly impossible is what makes their practices despicable. It's why I added they should be legally compelled by a consent decree to provide parts, schematics, and the ability to change operating systems seamlessly if they want to keep their monopoly.
sadeshmukh 2y ago
What completed or competes with YouTube?
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Now I feel old. You must be too young to remember Google Video: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Video https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Video
- mikelward 2y ago
  TikTok, Vimeo, DailyMotion, various social networks.

EasyMark 2y ago

I think that’s a bad idea, those other companies have lots of competition and haven’t abused their positions nearly as much as google has.