4 ms·

> it still baffles me how bad the alternatives still are Kagi

by mm263 2y ago

arghwhat 2y ago
After having been a paid subscriber for a number of months, I have to say that it still wasn't cutting it. I still ended up falling back to google all the time. Plus, https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html
- kachapopopow 2y ago
  Interesting read.
  - wetpaws 2y ago
    [dead]
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  What bugs me most about Kagi at the moment is that their iOS plugin behaves weirdly. Frequently it will completely swallow my search and I'll have to retype it. Eventually I just disabled it :( Arguably this is not their fault - I really wish iOS/MacOS Safari let you set a custom search engine instead of picking from a fixed list.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    On iOS I just set my default browser to Orion with Kagi as a default search engine. There’s some minor UI bugs but they’re not showstoppers.
- chiaroscuro1312 2y ago
  thanks for this link
- hiatus 2y ago
  Wow, those comments from the founder on GDPR are not unlike "we just chatgpted the license lol". I'm reconsidering my sub.
  - atrus 2y ago
    Yeah the sentence "We do not collect/extract this information, but the user volunteers it" is just...200% yikes.
- araes 2y ago
  One part I can add, having tried Ecosia [1] is it at least made me consider question like: "Are they actually planting these trees?" and "How would I possibly verify?" "Does Microsoft actually pay them? All I'm doing is clicking? Is that worth enough?" "How does anybody verify, and how is it not just an optimization for Ecosia to farm clicks for money? Chinese/Indian/Bangladeshi/Nigerian/MechTurk click farms don't cost that much. Seen the prices on MechTurk?" [1] https://www.ecosia.org/ https://www.ecosia.org/
  - AlienRobot 2y ago
    They have all that information in their website. The only earn money if people click ads, just like any other search engine. Microsoft isn't paying them to show them Bing results.
- Kuinox 2y ago
  > I still ended up falling back to google all the time. It uses google search behind the scenes. Among other search providers.
- KoolKat23 2y ago
  I can understand your point. The links points however are a bit ridiculous, they're entitled to their opinion but may be surprised to find people, at the businesses they use, have opinions that differ to theirs, and these businesses aren't always well-oiled machines.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    Differences in opinions and values (in particular what money is used for) is one thing, failing (and refusing) legal obligations and getting surprised by something as basic as tax is something else entirely.
    - KoolKat23 2y ago
      Obviously legal obligations is an issue. For a consumer facing business with no lock in, the tax thing makes absolutely no difference in your life using the product. If it was really a concern you'd simply no longer have access and change search engine, until then it doesn't matter. You'd be surprised what tax issues even large billion dollar companies have.
  - consteval 2y ago
    Right but differences in values for a business is definitely reason enough to give up your patronage.
    - KoolKat23 2y ago
      Unless it's egregious, it's likely to be hypocritical. Are those same people buying mobile phones (cobalt is being used, guess where and who mines that) or using Amazon (poorer working conditions relatively speaking)? Or communicating via post, and buying from the local guy who imports their products (and has a big carbon footprint)? The real world is grey.
      - consteval 2y ago
        It doesn't really matter, because perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good. You're correct the world is gray, but if you're able to make a product switch without too much effort then go for it. I mean, if I reduce my plastic use because I stop buying product X then that's still better (in my eyes) than if I did nothing. Or if Company Y has some egregious political ties, I cut them off, but Company Z is a huge conglomerate so I can't cut them off. Still a better deal than doing nothing.
- motoxpro 2y ago
  After reading that and and seeing the comments here, I don't think I will ever take people on HN seriously who say they want privacy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40011314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40011314 After reading the founders thoughts, if they were any sort of sizable company they would immediately have a GDPR violation. "emails and any info you give to use voluntarily (search prefs) is not PII and as such you can't have your data back." :0

> it still baffles me how bad the alternatives still are Kagi

by mm263 2y ago

> it still baffles me how bad the alternatives still are Kagi

After having been a paid subscriber for a number of months, I have to say that it still wasn't cutting it. I still ended up falling back to google all the time. Plus, https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html

kachapopopow 2y ago
Interesting read.
- wetpaws 2y ago
  [dead]
AlexandrB 2y ago
What bugs me most about Kagi at the moment is that their iOS plugin behaves weirdly. Frequently it will completely swallow my search and I'll have to retype it. Eventually I just disabled it :( Arguably this is not their fault - I really wish iOS/MacOS Safari let you set a custom search engine instead of picking from a fixed list.
- mulmen 2y ago
  On iOS I just set my default browser to Orion with Kagi as a default search engine. There’s some minor UI bugs but they’re not showstoppers.
chiaroscuro1312 2y ago
thanks for this link
hiatus 2y ago
Wow, those comments from the founder on GDPR are not unlike "we just chatgpted the license lol". I'm reconsidering my sub.
- atrus 2y ago
  Yeah the sentence "We do not collect/extract this information, but the user volunteers it" is just...200% yikes.
araes 2y ago
One part I can add, having tried Ecosia [1] is it at least made me consider question like: "Are they actually planting these trees?" and "How would I possibly verify?" "Does Microsoft actually pay them? All I'm doing is clicking? Is that worth enough?" "How does anybody verify, and how is it not just an optimization for Ecosia to farm clicks for money? Chinese/Indian/Bangladeshi/Nigerian/MechTurk click farms don't cost that much. Seen the prices on MechTurk?" [1] https://www.ecosia.org/ https://www.ecosia.org/
- AlienRobot 2y ago
  They have all that information in their website. The only earn money if people click ads, just like any other search engine. Microsoft isn't paying them to show them Bing results.
Kuinox 2y ago
> I still ended up falling back to google all the time. It uses google search behind the scenes. Among other search providers.
KoolKat23 2y ago
I can understand your point. The links points however are a bit ridiculous, they're entitled to their opinion but may be surprised to find people, at the businesses they use, have opinions that differ to theirs, and these businesses aren't always well-oiled machines.
- arghwhat 2y ago
  Differences in opinions and values (in particular what money is used for) is one thing, failing (and refusing) legal obligations and getting surprised by something as basic as tax is something else entirely.
  - KoolKat23 2y ago
    Obviously legal obligations is an issue. For a consumer facing business with no lock in, the tax thing makes absolutely no difference in your life using the product. If it was really a concern you'd simply no longer have access and change search engine, until then it doesn't matter. You'd be surprised what tax issues even large billion dollar companies have.
- consteval 2y ago
  Right but differences in values for a business is definitely reason enough to give up your patronage.
  - KoolKat23 2y ago
    Unless it's egregious, it's likely to be hypocritical. Are those same people buying mobile phones (cobalt is being used, guess where and who mines that) or using Amazon (poorer working conditions relatively speaking)? Or communicating via post, and buying from the local guy who imports their products (and has a big carbon footprint)? The real world is grey.
    - consteval 2y ago
      It doesn't really matter, because perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good. You're correct the world is gray, but if you're able to make a product switch without too much effort then go for it. I mean, if I reduce my plastic use because I stop buying product X then that's still better (in my eyes) than if I did nothing. Or if Company Y has some egregious political ties, I cut them off, but Company Z is a huge conglomerate so I can't cut them off. Still a better deal than doing nothing.
motoxpro 2y ago
After reading that and and seeing the comments here, I don't think I will ever take people on HN seriously who say they want privacy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40011314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40011314 After reading the founders thoughts, if they were any sort of sizable company they would immediately have a GDPR violation. "emails and any info you give to use voluntarily (search prefs) is not PII and as such you can't have your data back." :0