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Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Wordpress open source? WPE is under no obligation to contribute source code or money. If WP is unhappy with the outc

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Wordpress open source? WPE is under no obligation to contribute source code or money. If WP is unhappy with the outcome, they should have released their product under a different license.

jart 2y ago
How would you feel about Google if they used things like Linux and never contributed anything to open source? As the most profitable entity in the WordPress space, WPE has a duty to give something back. What Matt is asking for isn't unreasonable.
- BenjiWiebe 2y ago
  I would hope Google would help out, but I would also realize that it's ultimately their own choice if the license allows them to use it without donating time/money.
- egil 2y ago
  When Google contribute to open source, they often do it to scratch their own itch. That's how most open source organizations works. What Automattic wants from WPE as laid outs in their term sheet is to dictate what WPE contributes and audit their accounting. Not exactly on the same playing field as other corporate contributions to open source projects. Not to mention the non-forking clause. Maybe setting up a proper independent governance of the WordPress project would encourage more independent contributions.
- WorldWideWebb 2y ago
  That’s the point of the license WordPress is developed under - WPE, in fact, does not have a duty to give anything back.
- duhblow7 2y ago
  WP.org should add this to their license then: >"it's free but only until the project owners deem you too successful and then you'll have to pay 8% of your revenues to support the project". https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-dirty-b95cf128 https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-di...
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    I am very erratic on agreement with DHH's screeds, but this one hits the mark. Among all the more visible issues with this whole situation, he calls out a few things that I think need more awareness: 1. Matt decries Private Equity as leeches and freeloaders on free software, open source, and their community. 2. Automattic invested in WPE in the early days. In fact, Silver Lake, the PE firm that owns WPE, bought Automattic's share! Automattic sold to PE. 3. The WP Foundation has three members, two of whom show any sign of activity: Matt himself, and another person that Matt personally appointed who is... drum roll... the Managing Partner of a Private Equity firm. Somewhat ironic for someone who shit talks their competitors and Private Equity so vocally.
- danielfoster 2y ago
  I wouldn’t mind because that’s what Linux agreed to when they chose the GPL route.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  How we feel matters not, the license does. Before and after Google there is Linux. Same for Matt and this CMS lineage
- threeseed 2y ago
  Of course it is unreasonable. He chose to use an open source license and benefit from all that open source entails. You can’t turn around and ignore the terms of the license just because it doesn’t suit you.
srmarm 2y ago
I'd argue there is a moral obligation to support open source projects if you rely on them as a cornerstone of your business. However it's not a legal one. Open source is based on idealistic and community based mindset and modern tech is now based around extracting the dollars. The two aren't really compatible and it's really quite sad to see. That being said this the most stupid way to go about it.
- jart 2y ago
  I agree. If Matt was smart, he would have spent the last ten years maintaining his advantage rather than ignoring the problem. Now that he's backed into a corner and forced to get real nasty to survive, I can't believe how much tech people are falling over themselves to shill for the slimy salesman organization. Only tech is like this. Folks like union workers would lay down their lives before crossing a picket line. But the concept of solidarity is completely lost on tech workers. No one turns against their own like us.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  I'd argue there is an even greater moral obligation to honor what your contracts say and don't say, and thus keep your word. Doing what you say is pretty key to the concept of integrity, which outweighs Matt's driving desire for more money. The moral obligation to not screw over a million innocent users also outweighs Matt's driving desire for more money.
__m 2y ago
Wordpress itself is a fork, so they had to keep the license

jart 2y ago

How would you feel about Google if they used things like Linux and never contributed anything to open source? As the most profitable entity in the WordPress space, WPE has a duty to give something back. What Matt is asking for isn't unreasonable.

BenjiWiebe 2y ago
I would hope Google would help out, but I would also realize that it's ultimately their own choice if the license allows them to use it without donating time/money.
egil 2y ago
When Google contribute to open source, they often do it to scratch their own itch. That's how most open source organizations works. What Automattic wants from WPE as laid outs in their term sheet is to dictate what WPE contributes and audit their accounting. Not exactly on the same playing field as other corporate contributions to open source projects. Not to mention the non-forking clause. Maybe setting up a proper independent governance of the WordPress project would encourage more independent contributions.
WorldWideWebb 2y ago
That’s the point of the license WordPress is developed under - WPE, in fact, does not have a duty to give anything back.
duhblow7 2y ago
WP.org should add this to their license then: >"it's free but only until the project owners deem you too successful and then you'll have to pay 8% of your revenues to support the project". https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-dirty-b95cf128 https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-di...
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  I am very erratic on agreement with DHH's screeds, but this one hits the mark. Among all the more visible issues with this whole situation, he calls out a few things that I think need more awareness: 1. Matt decries Private Equity as leeches and freeloaders on free software, open source, and their community. 2. Automattic invested in WPE in the early days. In fact, Silver Lake, the PE firm that owns WPE, bought Automattic's share! Automattic sold to PE. 3. The WP Foundation has three members, two of whom show any sign of activity: Matt himself, and another person that Matt personally appointed who is... drum roll... the Managing Partner of a Private Equity firm. Somewhat ironic for someone who shit talks their competitors and Private Equity so vocally.
danielfoster 2y ago
I wouldn’t mind because that’s what Linux agreed to when they chose the GPL route.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bravetraveler 2y ago
How we feel matters not, the license does. Before and after Google there is Linux. Same for Matt and this CMS lineage
threeseed 2y ago
Of course it is unreasonable. He chose to use an open source license and benefit from all that open source entails. You can’t turn around and ignore the terms of the license just because it doesn’t suit you.

srmarm 2y ago

I'd argue there is a moral obligation to support open source projects if you rely on them as a cornerstone of your business. However it's not a legal one. Open source is based on idealistic and community based mindset and modern tech is now based around extracting the dollars. The two aren't really compatible and it's really quite sad to see. That being said this the most stupid way to go about it.

jart 2y ago
I agree. If Matt was smart, he would have spent the last ten years maintaining his advantage rather than ignoring the problem. Now that he's backed into a corner and forced to get real nasty to survive, I can't believe how much tech people are falling over themselves to shill for the slimy salesman organization. Only tech is like this. Folks like union workers would lay down their lives before crossing a picket line. But the concept of solidarity is completely lost on tech workers. No one turns against their own like us.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
I'd argue there is an even greater moral obligation to honor what your contracts say and don't say, and thus keep your word. Doing what you say is pretty key to the concept of integrity, which outweighs Matt's driving desire for more money. The moral obligation to not screw over a million innocent users also outweighs Matt's driving desire for more money.

__m 2y ago

Wordpress itself is a fork, so they had to keep the license