4 ms·

The Indians migrating to the US via h1b visas are not coming from the slums or ghettoes. Higher education to foreigners in the US is essentially an immigration

The Indians migrating to the US via h1b visas are not coming from the slums or ghettoes. Higher education to foreigners in the US is essentially an immigration scheme - they pay $60-$100k (+living expenses) for a useless graduate degree which only the rich can afford, then get funneled into consulting firms like Cognizant/Infosys on OPT/EAD visas before picking up their h1b for ~ 6 years. This pretty much gets you in the US for ~ 10 years before getting a green card. > The Indians in top leadership positions you see in tech firms are rare exceptions This is absolutely not the case. Despite being 2% of the population, Indians are way overrepresented in tech leadership positions (not just CEO/CTO). I recall in a meeting at a med size tech firm I worked at, the recruiting/HR department no longer considered Asians of any ethnicity a minority and lumped them in with white males.

Rinzler89 2y ago
>recruiting/HR department no longer considered Asians of any ethnicity a minority and lumped them in with white males. Why does HR even need to keep track of ethnicities? Is this a US thing? Here in my EU country you're just employee/applicant #3215, that's it, nobody asks or enters your ethnicity anywhere to even be able to keep tabs on how many are of what ethnicity, since everyone is considered equal by default and judged exclusively on performance (in theory at least, in practice there are still biases, but tracking ethnicities won't fix that, since that's human nature). What you're saying would even be against the law here since then it opens the door to bias and potential discrimination.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bee_rider 2y ago
  > (in theory at least, in practice there are still biases, but tracking ethnicities won't fix that, since that's human nature) That’s what we’re trying to fix (or at least mitigate) in the US. You say it is just human nature, but we’re a pretty diverse country, so we have a strong incentive to proactively try and see if we can make it work.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    You still haven't answered how employers keeping track of the ethnicities of employees helps against discrimination in any way. To me that's exactly what helps lead to discrimination versus not knowing ethnicities and treating employees as anonymized numbers which would be fair to everyone.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Nope, and I won’t. There are a lot of programs, and with various levels of effectiveness, and I don’t particularly want to dive into the nitty-gritty details of whether or not each one is working well. We haven’t got a perfect solution. But, I think it is self-evident that without collecting any data, we are just… hoping it’ll all work out? That’s not a plan. Currently in the US, businesses don’t actively have official policies of bigotry. If they did, collecting that data could be harmful. But instead we have bigotry as a sort of soft social thing, a compounding of many little challenges, “bad culture fit,” that sort of thing. Because it is subtle, we need to keep it from slipping under the radar.
      - Eumenes 2y ago
        Handwavy answer with zero substance - sounds like an HR reply. I encourage everyone reading to lie/fib about race/ethnicity data. Also, make up a pronoun/gender identity. Waste these suckers time.
- kenjackson 2y ago
  It's because of the history of racial discrimination in the US. While there's talk of affirmative action in the news, I suspect plain'ole racial discrimination is probably far more common.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Taht still doesn't answered how employers keeping track of the ethnicities of employees helps against discrimination in any way. To me that's exactly what helps lead to discrimination versus not knowing ethnicities and treating employees as anonymized numbers which would be fair to everyone.
    - runamok 2y ago
      The history of racism in the US is long and complex. In essence we keep track of this sort of thing to try to prevent ongoing systemic racism. "You can't fix what you don't measure" and all that. It also doesn't need to be systemic racism per se. People tend to hire people like them due to unconscious biases so if your company is mostly "X" there are is a good chance it will continue hiring "X". Here is one example that might be interesting: https://www.npr.org/2024/04/11/1243713272/resume-bias-study-white-names-black-names https://www.npr.org/2024/04/11/1243713272/resume-bias-study-...
red-iron-pine 2y ago
> the recruiting/HR department no longer considered Asians of any ethnicity a minority and lumped them in with white males. there was, IIRC, an infamous spat at a FAANG about that
- sien 2y ago
  It's so weird. Why didn't big tech companies fight tooth and nail to get Asian recognised as a minority so they could then turn around and say look 'We employ minorities at a rate way higher than other companies' ?
  - ljsprague 2y ago
    We all realize what a scam all of this is, right?
    - valval 2y ago
      DEI? I’d hope so, but somewhat half of the population seems oblivious.
- smugma 2y ago
  They aren’t “under-represented” minorities. They, at least in California, provide the breakdowns.
sumedh 2y ago
> Indians are way overrepresented in tech leadership positions (not just CEO/CTO). Lot of Indians do focus on learning/studying hard, get good grades to get a good job and move up the ladder. Ofcourse that does not automatically mean you get to be a CEO/CTO but the pool of people who hard hard and ambitious is bit bigger compared to other countries.

Rinzler89 2y ago

>recruiting/HR department no longer considered Asians of any ethnicity a minority and lumped them in with white males. Why does HR even need to keep track of ethnicities? Is this a US thing? Here in my EU country you're just employee/applicant #3215, that's it, nobody asks or enters your ethnicity anywhere to even be able to keep tabs on how many are of what ethnicity, since everyone is considered equal by default and judged exclusively on performance (in theory at least, in practice there are still biases, but tracking ethnicities won't fix that, since that's human nature). What you're saying would even be against the law here since then it opens the door to bias and potential discrimination.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bee_rider 2y ago
> (in theory at least, in practice there are still biases, but tracking ethnicities won't fix that, since that's human nature) That’s what we’re trying to fix (or at least mitigate) in the US. You say it is just human nature, but we’re a pretty diverse country, so we have a strong incentive to proactively try and see if we can make it work.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  You still haven't answered how employers keeping track of the ethnicities of employees helps against discrimination in any way. To me that's exactly what helps lead to discrimination versus not knowing ethnicities and treating employees as anonymized numbers which would be fair to everyone.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Nope, and I won’t. There are a lot of programs, and with various levels of effectiveness, and I don’t particularly want to dive into the nitty-gritty details of whether or not each one is working well. We haven’t got a perfect solution. But, I think it is self-evident that without collecting any data, we are just… hoping it’ll all work out? That’s not a plan. Currently in the US, businesses don’t actively have official policies of bigotry. If they did, collecting that data could be harmful. But instead we have bigotry as a sort of soft social thing, a compounding of many little challenges, “bad culture fit,” that sort of thing. Because it is subtle, we need to keep it from slipping under the radar.
    - Eumenes 2y ago
      Handwavy answer with zero substance - sounds like an HR reply. I encourage everyone reading to lie/fib about race/ethnicity data. Also, make up a pronoun/gender identity. Waste these suckers time.
kenjackson 2y ago
It's because of the history of racial discrimination in the US. While there's talk of affirmative action in the news, I suspect plain'ole racial discrimination is probably far more common.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Taht still doesn't answered how employers keeping track of the ethnicities of employees helps against discrimination in any way. To me that's exactly what helps lead to discrimination versus not knowing ethnicities and treating employees as anonymized numbers which would be fair to everyone.
  - runamok 2y ago
    The history of racism in the US is long and complex. In essence we keep track of this sort of thing to try to prevent ongoing systemic racism. "You can't fix what you don't measure" and all that. It also doesn't need to be systemic racism per se. People tend to hire people like them due to unconscious biases so if your company is mostly "X" there are is a good chance it will continue hiring "X". Here is one example that might be interesting: https://www.npr.org/2024/04/11/1243713272/resume-bias-study-white-names-black-names https://www.npr.org/2024/04/11/1243713272/resume-bias-study-...

red-iron-pine 2y ago

> the recruiting/HR department no longer considered Asians of any ethnicity a minority and lumped them in with white males. there was, IIRC, an infamous spat at a FAANG about that

sien 2y ago
It's so weird. Why didn't big tech companies fight tooth and nail to get Asian recognised as a minority so they could then turn around and say look 'We employ minorities at a rate way higher than other companies' ?
- ljsprague 2y ago
  We all realize what a scam all of this is, right?
  - valval 2y ago
    DEI? I’d hope so, but somewhat half of the population seems oblivious.
smugma 2y ago
They aren’t “under-represented” minorities. They, at least in California, provide the breakdowns.

sumedh 2y ago

> Indians are way overrepresented in tech leadership positions (not just CEO/CTO). Lot of Indians do focus on learning/studying hard, get good grades to get a good job and move up the ladder. Ofcourse that does not automatically mean you get to be a CEO/CTO but the pool of people who hard hard and ambitious is bit bigger compared to other countries.