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Yes. Just like a Minecraft World is like the size of 64,000 Earths, but it runs on my laptop. That is what I'm saying is not happening. I'm saying that in a p

Yes. Just like a Minecraft World is like the size of 64,000 Earths, but it runs on my laptop. That is what I'm saying is not happening. I'm saying that in a particle collider, we measure particles, and those exist all the time, not just when we are looking at them. Like, I have DNA and bones, they exist all the time, not just a simulation showing a 'skin' so it doesn't have to render everything. Unless you are making a bigger point. That a computer that could be simulating every single particle, must exist outside this universe, and maybe mass and energy in this outside universe is so radically different we can't even grasp the scales of it. Just like someone inside a minecraft world with blocks, couldn't grasp the amount of energy in our world.

jorvi 2y ago
Well, I don’t know about outside the universe, but you’re still not understanding how scaling works. And our technological progress. The simplest way I can put it is that at some point of compute, there is a crossover where you need less mass to simulate something than the mass of the actual thing is. This will hold true for particle simulations as well. So no, you would not need more particles than the universe has to simulate the universe perfectly.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Ok. I'll try again. I think the 'scaling' issue here is not understanding the size of the scale if we are talking about if dealing with every particle in the universe. The largest super computers today aren't simulating every particle in even a few molecules. So lets say you have Minecraft running. You can completely build a CPU / Memory, etc... Inside Minecraft with Redstone. Lets say you do this, build a PC inside Minecraft to the point that it is functional enough to run Minecraft. Minecraft running in Minecraft. There is huge overhead. You need an astronomically large real PC that could handle running Minecraft such that the Minecraft version running inside Minecraft is usable. That is the scale problem. I'd have to dig up the citation. But pretty sure this compute power needed to compute the universe has been worked out.
  - jorvi 2y ago
    > Ok. I'll try again. I think the 'scaling' issue here is not understanding the size of the scale if we are talking about if dealing with every particle in the universe. The largest super computers today aren't simulating every particle in even a few molecules. So.. we are basically just a few meters over the start line in terms of doing perfect particle simulations :) Look at protein folding. For decades, we could do it incrementally faster as our globally available compute increased. Then Alphafold came along and proved that it could be done much more efficiently. Now there's multiple models / companies that are planning to jostle for supremacy in that space. Our ways of simulating particles will get more sophisticated and efficient as time goes on. Our hardware will push more calculations per watt and per density (aka per unit of mass). I guess ultimately you take the pessimistic view and I take the optimistic view, so we'll have to agree to disagree. Good talk though!
    - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
      [dead]

jorvi 2y ago

Well, I don’t know about outside the universe, but you’re still not understanding how scaling works. And our technological progress. The simplest way I can put it is that at some point of compute, there is a crossover where you need less mass to simulate something than the mass of the actual thing is. This will hold true for particle simulations as well. So no, you would not need more particles than the universe has to simulate the universe perfectly.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Ok. I'll try again. I think the 'scaling' issue here is not understanding the size of the scale if we are talking about if dealing with every particle in the universe. The largest super computers today aren't simulating every particle in even a few molecules. So lets say you have Minecraft running. You can completely build a CPU / Memory, etc... Inside Minecraft with Redstone. Lets say you do this, build a PC inside Minecraft to the point that it is functional enough to run Minecraft. Minecraft running in Minecraft. There is huge overhead. You need an astronomically large real PC that could handle running Minecraft such that the Minecraft version running inside Minecraft is usable. That is the scale problem. I'd have to dig up the citation. But pretty sure this compute power needed to compute the universe has been worked out.
- jorvi 2y ago
  > Ok. I'll try again. I think the 'scaling' issue here is not understanding the size of the scale if we are talking about if dealing with every particle in the universe. The largest super computers today aren't simulating every particle in even a few molecules. So.. we are basically just a few meters over the start line in terms of doing perfect particle simulations :) Look at protein folding. For decades, we could do it incrementally faster as our globally available compute increased. Then Alphafold came along and proved that it could be done much more efficiently. Now there's multiple models / companies that are planning to jostle for supremacy in that space. Our ways of simulating particles will get more sophisticated and efficient as time goes on. Our hardware will push more calculations per watt and per density (aka per unit of mass). I guess ultimately you take the pessimistic view and I take the optimistic view, so we'll have to agree to disagree. Good talk though!
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    [dead]