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What do you use unit tests for, other than verifying implementation details? Perhaps we have a difference in definition. To me, a unit test for a function such

What do you use unit tests for, other than verifying implementation details? Perhaps we have a difference in definition. To me, a unit test for a function such as "parse_news_email" would explore variations in parameters and states. Because of combinatorial explosion, that often means at least some white-box testing. I'm not going to generate random subjects and senders, and received-froms, I'm going to target based on internal details. Are we doing smart things with the message ID hostname? Then what happens if two messages come in with the same message ID but from different relays? The objective is that the unit test wrings out the implementation details, and the caller's unit test doesn't need to exhaustively test them. This white-box texting may require directly poking at or mocking internal functions or at least abusing how they're called. For example, parsing the news item might entail pulling up and modifying conversation thread cache entries or state. For some of the tests you may need hand-crafted cache state, it's not feasible to create unique states for each parameter combination you're testing, and testing a combination will pollute the state for the following combinations. Or maybe the function depends upon an external resource you can't beat to death with a million identical requests. So the least-bad, simplest solution may be to freeze or back out part of the normal state update in the unit test. Which would usually involve directly invoking the internal routines. Can this lead to fragile, false-positve to the point of useless tests? You betcha. That's where entertaining two contrary viewpoints is needed :) Use experience and good judgement about pros and cons in the particular situation.

randomdata 2y ago
Unit tests are for documenting the API contract for the user. You are going to target based on what you are willing to forevermore commit to for those who will use what you have created. Indeed, what happens when two messages come in with the same message ID is something the user needs to be aware of and how it functions needs to remain stable no matter what you do behind the scenes in the future, so you would absolutely want to document that behaviour. How it is implemented is irrelevant, though. The only thing that matters is that, from the public API perspective, it is handled appropriately. There is a time and place for other types of tests, of course. You are right that unit tests are not the be all and end all. A good testing framework will allow you to mark for future developers which tests are "set in stone" and which are deemed throwaway.
- mgsouth 2y ago
  We're in general agreement about the purpose of unit tests. I disagree on a couple of points. Tests do not document the API. No test is complete, and for that reason alone can't completely document anything. For example, a good API might specify that "the sender must be non-null, and must be valid per RFC blah." There's no way to test that inclusively, to check all possible inputs. You can't use the test cases to deduce "we must meet RFC blah." You might suspect it, but you'd be risking undefined behavior it you stray from input that doesn't exactly match the test cases. And before anyone objects "the API docs can be incomplete too," well, that true. But the point is that a written API has vastly more descriptive power than a set of test cases. (The same applies to "self-documenting code". Bah humbug.) There's also the objection "but you can't guarentee cases you don't test!" Also true. That's reality. _You can never test all your intended behavior._ You pick your test cases to do the best you can, and change your cases as problems pop up. The other thing I would shy away from is including throwaway tests in the framework. Throwaways are a thing, developers use them all the time, but don't make them unwanted stepchildren--poorly (incompletely?) designed, slapped together, limited scope, confusing for another developer (including time-traveling self) to wade through and decide whether this is a real failure or just bogus test. They're tech debt. Less frequently used tests are another matter. For example, release-engineering tests that only get run against release candidates. But these should be just as much real, set in stone, as any other deliverable. Which I guess is a third viewpoint nuance difference. I treat tests as being part of the package just as much as any other deliverable. They morph and shift as APIs change, or dependencies mutate, or bugs are found. They aren't something that can be put to the side and left to vegetate.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > There's no way to test that inclusively, to check all possible inputs. Which means the RFC claim is false and should not be asserted in the first place. The API may incidentally accept valid RFC input, but there is no way to know that it does for sure for all inputs. You might suspect it conforms to the RFC, but to claim that it does with certainty is incorrect. Only what is documented in the tests is known to be true. Everything else is undefined behaviour. Even if you do happen to conform to an RFC in one version, without testing to verify that continues to hold true, it probably won’t. This is exactly why unit tests are the expected documentation by users. It prevents you, the author, from make spurious claims. If you try, the computer will catch you in your lies. > The other thing I would shy away from is including throwaway tests in the framework. What does that mean? I suspect you are thinking of something completely different as this doesn't quite make sense with respect to what I said. It probably makes sense in another context, and if I have inferred that context correctly, I'd agree... But, again, untreated to our discussion.
Spivak 2y ago
> What do you use unit tests for, other than verifying implementation details? 1. Determining when the observable behavior of the program changes. 2. Codifying only the specific behaviors that are known to be relied on by callers. 3. Preventing regressions after bugs are fixed. Failing tests are alarm bells, when do you want them to grab your attention?
- mgsouth 2y ago
  Excellent points, violently agree, my question was poorly worded. The purpose of units tests is to verify the contracted API is actually being provided by the implementation details. A clearer question might have been "what are unit tests for if not to exercise the implementation details, verifying they adhere to the API?" Unit tests validate implementation details, integration tests validate APIs. To me, a good unit test beats the stuffing out of the unit. It's as much a part of the unit as the public functions, so should take full advantage of internal details (keeping test fragility in mind); of course that implies the unit test needs ongoing maintenance just as much as the public functions. If you're passing a small set of inputs and checking the outputs, well that's a smoke test, not a unit test. To answer your last question, I want the alarm bells to ring whenever the implementation details don't hold up. That's whether the function code changed, a code or state dependency changed, or the testing process itself changed. If at all feasible all the unit tests run every time the the complete suite is run, in full meat-grinder mode. "Complete suite" is hand-wavy; e.g. it might be the suite for a major library, but not the end-to-end application.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    All that doesn't mean that you have to consider artificial boundaries that you yourself have introduced for convenience when deciding on the proper boundaries for what constitutes a "unit". Not every instance of code reuse makes for a good unit to test.
xboxnolifes 2y ago
> What do you use unit tests for, other than verifying implementation details? You don't need to verify the return of `parse_subject()` directly, since it will be part of the return of `parse_email()`. Verify it there.

randomdata 2y ago

Unit tests are for documenting the API contract for the user. You are going to target based on what you are willing to forevermore commit to for those who will use what you have created. Indeed, what happens when two messages come in with the same message ID is something the user needs to be aware of and how it functions needs to remain stable no matter what you do behind the scenes in the future, so you would absolutely want to document that behaviour. How it is implemented is irrelevant, though. The only thing that matters is that, from the public API perspective, it is handled appropriately. There is a time and place for other types of tests, of course. You are right that unit tests are not the be all and end all. A good testing framework will allow you to mark for future developers which tests are "set in stone" and which are deemed throwaway.

mgsouth 2y ago
We're in general agreement about the purpose of unit tests. I disagree on a couple of points. Tests do not document the API. No test is complete, and for that reason alone can't completely document anything. For example, a good API might specify that "the sender must be non-null, and must be valid per RFC blah." There's no way to test that inclusively, to check all possible inputs. You can't use the test cases to deduce "we must meet RFC blah." You might suspect it, but you'd be risking undefined behavior it you stray from input that doesn't exactly match the test cases. And before anyone objects "the API docs can be incomplete too," well, that true. But the point is that a written API has vastly more descriptive power than a set of test cases. (The same applies to "self-documenting code". Bah humbug.) There's also the objection "but you can't guarentee cases you don't test!" Also true. That's reality. _You can never test all your intended behavior._ You pick your test cases to do the best you can, and change your cases as problems pop up. The other thing I would shy away from is including throwaway tests in the framework. Throwaways are a thing, developers use them all the time, but don't make them unwanted stepchildren--poorly (incompletely?) designed, slapped together, limited scope, confusing for another developer (including time-traveling self) to wade through and decide whether this is a real failure or just bogus test. They're tech debt. Less frequently used tests are another matter. For example, release-engineering tests that only get run against release candidates. But these should be just as much real, set in stone, as any other deliverable. Which I guess is a third viewpoint nuance difference. I treat tests as being part of the package just as much as any other deliverable. They morph and shift as APIs change, or dependencies mutate, or bugs are found. They aren't something that can be put to the side and left to vegetate.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > There's no way to test that inclusively, to check all possible inputs. Which means the RFC claim is false and should not be asserted in the first place. The API may incidentally accept valid RFC input, but there is no way to know that it does for sure for all inputs. You might suspect it conforms to the RFC, but to claim that it does with certainty is incorrect. Only what is documented in the tests is known to be true. Everything else is undefined behaviour. Even if you do happen to conform to an RFC in one version, without testing to verify that continues to hold true, it probably won’t. This is exactly why unit tests are the expected documentation by users. It prevents you, the author, from make spurious claims. If you try, the computer will catch you in your lies. > The other thing I would shy away from is including throwaway tests in the framework. What does that mean? I suspect you are thinking of something completely different as this doesn't quite make sense with respect to what I said. It probably makes sense in another context, and if I have inferred that context correctly, I'd agree... But, again, untreated to our discussion.

Spivak 2y ago

> What do you use unit tests for, other than verifying implementation details? 1. Determining when the observable behavior of the program changes. 2. Codifying only the specific behaviors that are known to be relied on by callers. 3. Preventing regressions after bugs are fixed. Failing tests are alarm bells, when do you want them to grab your attention?

mgsouth 2y ago
Excellent points, violently agree, my question was poorly worded. The purpose of units tests is to verify the contracted API is actually being provided by the implementation details. A clearer question might have been "what are unit tests for if not to exercise the implementation details, verifying they adhere to the API?" Unit tests validate implementation details, integration tests validate APIs. To me, a good unit test beats the stuffing out of the unit. It's as much a part of the unit as the public functions, so should take full advantage of internal details (keeping test fragility in mind); of course that implies the unit test needs ongoing maintenance just as much as the public functions. If you're passing a small set of inputs and checking the outputs, well that's a smoke test, not a unit test. To answer your last question, I want the alarm bells to ring whenever the implementation details don't hold up. That's whether the function code changed, a code or state dependency changed, or the testing process itself changed. If at all feasible all the unit tests run every time the the complete suite is run, in full meat-grinder mode. "Complete suite" is hand-wavy; e.g. it might be the suite for a major library, but not the end-to-end application.
- int_19h 2y ago
  All that doesn't mean that you have to consider artificial boundaries that you yourself have introduced for convenience when deciding on the proper boundaries for what constitutes a "unit". Not every instance of code reuse makes for a good unit to test.

xboxnolifes 2y ago

> What do you use unit tests for, other than verifying implementation details? You don't need to verify the return of `parse_subject()` directly, since it will be part of the return of `parse_email()`. Verify it there.