5 ms·

I am not sure why you are being downvoted. Just like fridges, cars, ovens gained internet access, enhanced humans will be extremely likely to be, eventually --

I am not sure why you are being downvoted. Just like fridges, cars, ovens gained internet access, enhanced humans will be extremely likely to be, eventually -- and possibly with interesting consequences -- hacked.

dingnuts 2y ago
if Neuralink became pervasive like smartphones I'd join the Amish
MOARDONGZPLZ 2y ago
Like the January 6 question, I’m assuming that anyone who had a neuralink would likely be ineligible for any sort of clearance to access information like this.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
  I am not as certain. Sure, Musk and his product are no longer 'cool' given his move to US political right faction, but tech is tech. Some tried banning cell phones and whatnot and the old guard there had to adjust their expectations. In short, I am not sure you are right about it. If anything, and I personally see it as a worst case scenario, use of that contraption will be effectively mandatory the way having cell phone is now ( edit: if you work for any bigger corp that and and want to log from your home ).
  - MOARDONGZPLZ 2y ago
    As far as I am aware, no electronic devices from outside, and no devices that transmit anything, are allowed in these high security areas. That’s inclusive of cell phones, for example. That is: the point I am making is more nuanced than whether something is popular (like cell phones or other tech).
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
      Oh, I am sure there are restrictions for the rank and file, but the higher ups with such access can ( and apparently do ) get exceptions[1] and while this is one of the more visible examples, I sincerely doubt he is the only one. [1]https://www.wired.com/2017/01/trump-android-phone-security-threat/ https://www.wired.com/2017/01/trump-android-phone-security-t...
renewiltord 2y ago
You can already hack people by just telling them things. Many of them will do dumb shit if you just use the right words.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
  I like the analogy. Lets explore it a little. << You can already hack people by just telling them things. True, but language fluctuates, zeitgeist changes and while underlying techniques remain largely the same, what nationstate would not dream of being able to simply have people obey when it tells them to do behave in a particular way. Yes, you can regimen people through propaganda, but what if it you could do it more easily this way?
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Certainly people would like an API for others without needing to reverse engineer them. Agreed that there is a threshold of simplicity past which it becomes easier to organize than having to give speeches and run propaganda.
  - willy_k 2y ago
    > True, but language fluctuates, zeitgeist changes and while underlying techniques remain largely the same This applies to software as well > Yes, you can regimen people through propaganda, but what if it you could do it more easily this way? Widespread use of BCIs would help with this for sure, but don’t be under the impression that individual and population level manipulation techniques haven’t progressed well past simple propaganda.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
      << don’t be under the impression that individual and population level manipulation techniques haven’t progressed well past simple propaganda. I absolutely buy it based merely on the glimpse of the document from various whistleblowers over the years. At this point, I can only imagine how well oiled a machine it must be.
  - 2y ago
rad_gruchalski 2y ago
> I am not sure why you are being downvoted. Trigger-happy emotional non-intelligence.
ruthmarx 2y ago
That's not really true, in that context security will largely be a solved problem. Using chips with a secure architecture, safe languages and safe protocols is going to result in secure implants. Not to say there might not be some new vulnerability, but I disagree with this idea people love to repeat that security is impossible.
- bigiain 2y ago
  Security will never be a "largely solved problem", when there are humans involved (and probably even when humans are not involved). There is no technical solution to people uploading high res photos with location metadata to social network de jour. Or the CEO who wants access to all his email on his shiny new gadget. Or the three letter agency who think ubiquitous surveillance is a great way to do their job. Or the politician who can be easily convinced the backdoors that can only be used by "the good guys" exist. Or the team who does all their internal chat including production secrets in a 3rd party chat app, only to have them popped and their prod credentials leaked on some TOR site. Or the sweatshop IT outsourcing firm that browbeats underpaid devs into meeting pointless Jira ticket closure targets. Or the "move fast and break things" startup culture that's desperately cutting corners to be first-to-market. None of the people involved in bringing "enhanced human" tech to market will be immune to any of those pressures. (I mean, FFS, in the short term we're really talking about a product that _Elon_ is applying his massive billionaire brain to, right? I wonder what the media friendly equivalent term to "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly" for when Nerualink starts blowing up people's brains is going to be?)
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    > Security will never be a "largely solved problem", when there are humans involved (and probably even when humans are not involved). It absolutely will. I didn't say completely solved, I said largely solved. > There is no technical solution to people uploading high res photos with location metadata to social network de jour. Bad example honestly, since most social media sites strip out exif data by default these days. Not sure there are any that don't. > Or the CEO who wants access to all his email on his shiny new gadget. Or the three letter agency who think ubiquitous surveillance is a great way to do their job. Or the politician who can be easily convinced the backdoors that can only be used by "the good guys" exist. Or the team who does all their internal chat including production secrets in a 3rd party chat app, only to have them popped and their prod credentials leaked on some TOR site. Or the sweatshop IT outsourcing firm that browbeats underpaid devs into meeting pointless Jira ticket closure targets. Or the "move fast and break things" startup culture that's desperately cutting corners to be first-to-market. Yes yes, humans can be selfish and take risks and be bribed and negligent and blah blah blah. The context of the comment was in neuralink implants getting hacked the way an out of date smart tv might. As when it comes to the actual tech, security will be a solved problem, because most of the problems we see today are due to everything being built on top of insecure foundations on top of insecure foundations.

dingnuts 2y ago

if Neuralink became pervasive like smartphones I'd join the Amish

MOARDONGZPLZ 2y ago

Like the January 6 question, I’m assuming that anyone who had a neuralink would likely be ineligible for any sort of clearance to access information like this.

A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
I am not as certain. Sure, Musk and his product are no longer 'cool' given his move to US political right faction, but tech is tech. Some tried banning cell phones and whatnot and the old guard there had to adjust their expectations. In short, I am not sure you are right about it. If anything, and I personally see it as a worst case scenario, use of that contraption will be effectively mandatory the way having cell phone is now ( edit: if you work for any bigger corp that and and want to log from your home ).
- MOARDONGZPLZ 2y ago
  As far as I am aware, no electronic devices from outside, and no devices that transmit anything, are allowed in these high security areas. That’s inclusive of cell phones, for example. That is: the point I am making is more nuanced than whether something is popular (like cell phones or other tech).
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
    Oh, I am sure there are restrictions for the rank and file, but the higher ups with such access can ( and apparently do ) get exceptions[1] and while this is one of the more visible examples, I sincerely doubt he is the only one. [1]https://www.wired.com/2017/01/trump-android-phone-security-threat/ https://www.wired.com/2017/01/trump-android-phone-security-t...

renewiltord 2y ago

You can already hack people by just telling them things. Many of them will do dumb shit if you just use the right words.

A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
I like the analogy. Lets explore it a little. << You can already hack people by just telling them things. True, but language fluctuates, zeitgeist changes and while underlying techniques remain largely the same, what nationstate would not dream of being able to simply have people obey when it tells them to do behave in a particular way. Yes, you can regimen people through propaganda, but what if it you could do it more easily this way?
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Certainly people would like an API for others without needing to reverse engineer them. Agreed that there is a threshold of simplicity past which it becomes easier to organize than having to give speeches and run propaganda.
- willy_k 2y ago
  > True, but language fluctuates, zeitgeist changes and while underlying techniques remain largely the same This applies to software as well > Yes, you can regimen people through propaganda, but what if it you could do it more easily this way? Widespread use of BCIs would help with this for sure, but don’t be under the impression that individual and population level manipulation techniques haven’t progressed well past simple propaganda.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
    << don’t be under the impression that individual and population level manipulation techniques haven’t progressed well past simple propaganda. I absolutely buy it based merely on the glimpse of the document from various whistleblowers over the years. At this point, I can only imagine how well oiled a machine it must be.
- 2y ago

rad_gruchalski 2y ago

> I am not sure why you are being downvoted. Trigger-happy emotional non-intelligence.

ruthmarx 2y ago

That's not really true, in that context security will largely be a solved problem. Using chips with a secure architecture, safe languages and safe protocols is going to result in secure implants. Not to say there might not be some new vulnerability, but I disagree with this idea people love to repeat that security is impossible.

bigiain 2y ago
Security will never be a "largely solved problem", when there are humans involved (and probably even when humans are not involved). There is no technical solution to people uploading high res photos with location metadata to social network de jour. Or the CEO who wants access to all his email on his shiny new gadget. Or the three letter agency who think ubiquitous surveillance is a great way to do their job. Or the politician who can be easily convinced the backdoors that can only be used by "the good guys" exist. Or the team who does all their internal chat including production secrets in a 3rd party chat app, only to have them popped and their prod credentials leaked on some TOR site. Or the sweatshop IT outsourcing firm that browbeats underpaid devs into meeting pointless Jira ticket closure targets. Or the "move fast and break things" startup culture that's desperately cutting corners to be first-to-market. None of the people involved in bringing "enhanced human" tech to market will be immune to any of those pressures. (I mean, FFS, in the short term we're really talking about a product that _Elon_ is applying his massive billionaire brain to, right? I wonder what the media friendly equivalent term to "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly" for when Nerualink starts blowing up people's brains is going to be?)
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  > Security will never be a "largely solved problem", when there are humans involved (and probably even when humans are not involved). It absolutely will. I didn't say completely solved, I said largely solved. > There is no technical solution to people uploading high res photos with location metadata to social network de jour. Bad example honestly, since most social media sites strip out exif data by default these days. Not sure there are any that don't. > Or the CEO who wants access to all his email on his shiny new gadget. Or the three letter agency who think ubiquitous surveillance is a great way to do their job. Or the politician who can be easily convinced the backdoors that can only be used by "the good guys" exist. Or the team who does all their internal chat including production secrets in a 3rd party chat app, only to have them popped and their prod credentials leaked on some TOR site. Or the sweatshop IT outsourcing firm that browbeats underpaid devs into meeting pointless Jira ticket closure targets. Or the "move fast and break things" startup culture that's desperately cutting corners to be first-to-market. Yes yes, humans can be selfish and take risks and be bribed and negligent and blah blah blah. The context of the comment was in neuralink implants getting hacked the way an out of date smart tv might. As when it comes to the actual tech, security will be a solved problem, because most of the problems we see today are due to everything being built on top of insecure foundations on top of insecure foundations.