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I find it odd the author spends lots of time talking about vintage typewriters but then fails to consider vintage computers which can give some real life exampl

I find it odd the author spends lots of time talking about vintage typewriters but then fails to consider vintage computers which can give some real life examples of computers that are still usable almost 50 years on from their original release. E.g. the Commodore 64, lots of working examples still around and now 42 years since first release. Certainly a C64 is highly restrictive compared to a modern machine and were one to specifically build a computer to last 50 years it's not where you'd start but surely a machine that has actually lasted almost 50 years and remains usable has things to teach you about long lasting computer design. In particular interesting to see how open source fits in. The modern C64 ecosystem has plenty of tools and utilities that do use open source software and hardware (e.g. the Kung Fu Flash cartridge: https://github.com/KimJorgensen/KungFuFlash https://github.com/KimJorgensen/KungFuFlash) but plenty of the core software, that actually runs on the machine, is proprietary software the source is long gone for. It's still around because of archivists and pirates and can continue to be used because the original copyright holders don't care to enforce their copyrights. So is open source actually a core item as the author asserts or just a nice to have? Having the software be archived and easily available later was the key. Along with simplicity, you just run the monolithic binary, there's no dependencies and the software is sufficiently simple that hacking around with the raw binary is perfectly feasible.

gchadwick 2y ago
Thinking about it the Apple II is a better example here, for one thing it's yet older (47 years). However I don't personally posses one nor have I ever used one so I concentrated on the C64. The author talks about doing timeless activities well. You can still word process, do spreadsheets and program on an Apple II. Probably meets the author's 'sturdy and resilient' requirements as well as being a 'heavier and well-designed object'.
- behringer 2y ago
  The Tandy or trs80 line is even better. They were designed to be resilient and easy to repair and ample service documentation is available and sold to the consumer, meaning you can get repair docs even today in physical form if that floats your boat. Almost all the parts were off the shelf components.
kibwen 2y ago
> So is open source actually a core item as the author asserts or just a nice to have? I think there's a difference in terms here. Having a computer that lasts for 50 years doesn't necessarily mean that you want a computer that is forever unchanging, frozen in amber. You should be able to upgrade a long-term computer, if you want to (including the software); the point is just that you don't have to upgrade. For the "frozen in amber" use case, sure, you could just pirate the proprietary stuff and hope to fly under the radar. But for the living use case, you need open source, even if that's based on some decompiled proprietary code.
- eschneider 2y ago
  If you want a computing environment that lasts, open source _is_ a core item. Hardware isn't forever and at a certain point will have to change (even chips break/wear out, not to mention capacitors and other bits...) If you can port your OS and your apps and have control over your data formats, you're in a position to adapt to change.
ndiddy 2y ago
The C64 ROM source code hasn't been lost (it's here: https://github.com/mist64/cbmsrc https://github.com/mist64/cbmsrc) but I would count it as "source available" because it's not freely licensed (I believe Cloanto owns the copyright to it).
xeox538 2y ago
30 years running now, but probably would run another 20. Does this count? https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a16010/30-year-old-computer-runs-school-heat/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a...
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
C64 has a lot of failure prone parts. Much of that is due to the nature of NMOS construction. You'd want to target large feature size CMOS from the late 80s to early 90s to hit the sweet spot of semiconductor longevity.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jerkstate 2y ago
Yeah, I dusted off the old Vic-20 to teach my kids to code, it’s over 40 years old now and all I needed to do was replace a fuse to get it running again (my recollection was it had been last used before a lightning strike, and we had gotten an 8088 by then so we never tried to repair it in the 80s) - it’s notable that the memory on the 8088 has since gone bad and it’s not usable anymore.

gchadwick 2y ago

Thinking about it the Apple II is a better example here, for one thing it's yet older (47 years). However I don't personally posses one nor have I ever used one so I concentrated on the C64. The author talks about doing timeless activities well. You can still word process, do spreadsheets and program on an Apple II. Probably meets the author's 'sturdy and resilient' requirements as well as being a 'heavier and well-designed object'.

behringer 2y ago
The Tandy or trs80 line is even better. They were designed to be resilient and easy to repair and ample service documentation is available and sold to the consumer, meaning you can get repair docs even today in physical form if that floats your boat. Almost all the parts were off the shelf components.

kibwen 2y ago

> So is open source actually a core item as the author asserts or just a nice to have? I think there's a difference in terms here. Having a computer that lasts for 50 years doesn't necessarily mean that you want a computer that is forever unchanging, frozen in amber. You should be able to upgrade a long-term computer, if you want to (including the software); the point is just that you don't have to upgrade. For the "frozen in amber" use case, sure, you could just pirate the proprietary stuff and hope to fly under the radar. But for the living use case, you need open source, even if that's based on some decompiled proprietary code.

eschneider 2y ago
If you want a computing environment that lasts, open source _is_ a core item. Hardware isn't forever and at a certain point will have to change (even chips break/wear out, not to mention capacitors and other bits...) If you can port your OS and your apps and have control over your data formats, you're in a position to adapt to change.

ndiddy 2y ago

The C64 ROM source code hasn't been lost (it's here: https://github.com/mist64/cbmsrc https://github.com/mist64/cbmsrc) but I would count it as "source available" because it's not freely licensed (I believe Cloanto owns the copyright to it).

xeox538 2y ago

30 years running now, but probably would run another 20. Does this count? https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a16010/30-year-old-computer-runs-school-heat/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a...

kevin_thibedeau 2y ago

C64 has a lot of failure prone parts. Much of that is due to the nature of NMOS construction. You'd want to target large feature size CMOS from the late 80s to early 90s to hit the sweet spot of semiconductor longevity.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jerkstate 2y ago

Yeah, I dusted off the old Vic-20 to teach my kids to code, it’s over 40 years old now and all I needed to do was replace a fuse to get it running again (my recollection was it had been last used before a lightning strike, and we had gotten an 8088 by then so we never tried to repair it in the 80s) - it’s notable that the memory on the 8088 has since gone bad and it’s not usable anymore.