4 ms·

it's alarmism to say zero safe exposure. For example, you should limit your tuna per week, but you don't need to stop eating tuna. The problem with heavy metal

it's alarmism to say zero safe exposure. For example, you should limit your tuna per week, but you don't need to stop eating tuna. The problem with heavy metals is that they're cumulative, but it's also impossible to avoid them completely, so minimization is the strategy. -20db is 1/100th which is a dramatic improvement, at least for that threat source.

rpnx 2y ago
Lead is toxic at any dose. This means is damages your neurons in any amount. Contrast to say, copper, which doesn't start causing damage until levels exceed a certain tolerable threshold. While lead is toxic at any amount, low amounts of lead cause low amounts of damage. It doesn't change the fact that the ideal exposure is 0 and over 99% of people have about 5 to 10 times the bond lead levels found in remains of our ancestors, and that even relatively low lead exposure levels from breathing lead in the air from just air pollution are linked to dramatically reduced IQ.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  >99% of people have about 5 to 10 times the bond lead levels found in remains of our ancestors 99% of people live better lives than all of our ancestors, in every dimension. if you're telling me it's because of lead, then lead is a good thing.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    Silly.
    - fsckboy 2y ago
      it's silly hubris on your part to claim that you know that tetraethyl lead in gasoline was not a net positive for civilization: cheap gas in high compression cars leading to productivity gains? Could things have been better? you, of all people, have no idea.
rpnx 2y ago
To be clear, everyone alive today is still on average multiple iq points dumber than they would have been had we not burned tetraethyl lead 50 years ago, even though it has been banned for quite a while. Lead is THAT toxic.
- JamesBarney 2y ago
  Any source for this? Most of the research I've seen with regards to lead and IQ is correlational and could be confounded by intelligence being correlated with income which is associated with living in places with less lead exposure. https://x.com/Noahpinion/status/1825584397363589312 https://x.com/Noahpinion/status/1825584397363589312 Basically the IQ gap between the lead exposed and non exposed has stayed the same even though the amount of lead in the bloodstream has dropped by orders of magnitude. So either the first part of lead exposure is 100x more damaging then the 100th part of lead exposure (which animal models do not bear out) or a lot of the lead exposure IQ research is confounded.
  - notjulianjaynes 2y ago
    I believe when in life you are exposed makes a difference too. Children are at a higher risk for being harmed by lead for a number of reasons including having less blood than an adult, and being more likely to eat paint chips off the ground than (most) adults. I'd imagine that lead replacing calcium in the brain during critical developmental periods also matters a lot. Effects of calcium supplementation on blood lead levels and short term memory of chronically exposed children https://oamjms.eu/index.php/mjms/article/view/3285 https://oamjms.eu/index.php/mjms/article/view/3285
- fsckboy 2y ago
  [flagged]
bobmcnamara 2y ago
Take it up with the EPA I guess? https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-information-about-lead-drinking-water https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-in... It's not trying to be alarmist, it's just different from things like, say, table salt, where small amounts over time are fine but 1 pound will kill.
- getfroggie 2y ago
  [dead]

rpnx 2y ago

Lead is toxic at any dose. This means is damages your neurons in any amount. Contrast to say, copper, which doesn't start causing damage until levels exceed a certain tolerable threshold. While lead is toxic at any amount, low amounts of lead cause low amounts of damage. It doesn't change the fact that the ideal exposure is 0 and over 99% of people have about 5 to 10 times the bond lead levels found in remains of our ancestors, and that even relatively low lead exposure levels from breathing lead in the air from just air pollution are linked to dramatically reduced IQ.

fsckboy 2y ago
>99% of people have about 5 to 10 times the bond lead levels found in remains of our ancestors 99% of people live better lives than all of our ancestors, in every dimension. if you're telling me it's because of lead, then lead is a good thing.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Silly.
  - fsckboy 2y ago
    it's silly hubris on your part to claim that you know that tetraethyl lead in gasoline was not a net positive for civilization: cheap gas in high compression cars leading to productivity gains? Could things have been better? you, of all people, have no idea.

rpnx 2y ago

To be clear, everyone alive today is still on average multiple iq points dumber than they would have been had we not burned tetraethyl lead 50 years ago, even though it has been banned for quite a while. Lead is THAT toxic.

JamesBarney 2y ago
Any source for this? Most of the research I've seen with regards to lead and IQ is correlational and could be confounded by intelligence being correlated with income which is associated with living in places with less lead exposure. https://x.com/Noahpinion/status/1825584397363589312 https://x.com/Noahpinion/status/1825584397363589312 Basically the IQ gap between the lead exposed and non exposed has stayed the same even though the amount of lead in the bloodstream has dropped by orders of magnitude. So either the first part of lead exposure is 100x more damaging then the 100th part of lead exposure (which animal models do not bear out) or a lot of the lead exposure IQ research is confounded.
- notjulianjaynes 2y ago
  I believe when in life you are exposed makes a difference too. Children are at a higher risk for being harmed by lead for a number of reasons including having less blood than an adult, and being more likely to eat paint chips off the ground than (most) adults. I'd imagine that lead replacing calcium in the brain during critical developmental periods also matters a lot. Effects of calcium supplementation on blood lead levels and short term memory of chronically exposed children https://oamjms.eu/index.php/mjms/article/view/3285 https://oamjms.eu/index.php/mjms/article/view/3285
fsckboy 2y ago
[flagged]

bobmcnamara 2y ago

Take it up with the EPA I guess? https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-information-about-lead-drinking-water https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-in... It's not trying to be alarmist, it's just different from things like, say, table salt, where small amounts over time are fine but 1 pound will kill.

getfroggie 2y ago
[dead]