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Why aren't there more US ship builders? It seems like there ought to be room for a profitable business, given that they have a huge advantage enshrined in feder

Why aren't there more US ship builders? It seems like there ought to be room for a profitable business, given that they have a huge advantage enshrined in federal law.

lesuorac 2y ago
It sounds like there just aren't that many ships that need to be built. > [1] Looking at upcoming deliveries, 20 dredgers are expected to join the global fleet in 2021 [1]: https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/news-insights/research/dredging-industry-builds-smaller-vessels https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/news-insight...
- uhhh_maks 2y ago
  We do need some icebreakers though! https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-the-us-cant-build-icebreaking https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-the-us-cant-build...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
shrx 2y ago
Related discussion from last month: Why Can't the U.S. Build Ships? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41456073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41456073
foota 2y ago
I think it's a fairly inconsistent business, for one. I wonder also if state protectionism is at pay. Washington State for example until recently was only considering in state ship builders to replace the ferry fleet
- pfdietz 2y ago
  Is that constitutional?
  - foota 2y ago
    I was asking myself this as I was writing it as well. I would assume that the State Government can choose to do what they will with regards to their own ferries, but that it would not be legal (interstate commerce) for them to require other companies in state to get their ships build in state.
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      This appears to be how it works. The state has freedom if they are acting as just another market participant, but not if acting as a regulator.
fngjdflmdflg 2y ago
It's an extremely competitive industry that has seen government funding as part of the industrial policy of several east Asian countries. Right now even Korea, one of the largest shipbuilding countries, is having trouble competing with the Chinese shipbuilding industry: >However, despite these significant contracts [above], the Korean shipbuilding industry is facing a growing sense of crisis. According to industry sources on Oct. 3, out of the 191 container ships of 7000TEU (1TEU = one 20-foot container) or more ordered this year, China took 177, accounting for 92.7%. This shift has been particularly evident in recent large-scale container ship orders by global shipping companies, which have increasingly favored Chinese shipyards over Korean ones. >The industry assesses that China is gaining the trust of global shipowners by successfully carrying out projects with low prices and quick delivery times. In fact, it is reported that there is no longer a significant difference in delivery schedules between Korea and China.[0] To be clear, Korea is still a major player in shipbuilding (basically tied with China) and based on an article from last year[1] it seems that they focus more on other ships besides 7000TEU. It is probably impossible for the US to enter this market in any reasonable time frame and it would need government support like in Korea China and Japan. Even Japan, which was the largest player in the shipbuilding industry for decades has lost its marketshare to Korea and China. The costs saved by not being subject to the Jones Act probably don't make up for the cost of those ships. In 2013, US container ships costed 5 times as much as foreign ones, and it's probably more than that now.[2] Maintenance is another factor. [0] https://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=226283 https://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=... [1] https://www.kedglobal.com/shipping-shipbuilding/newsView/ked202404030012 https://www.kedglobal.com/shipping-shipbuilding/newsView/ked... [2] https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45725.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45725.pdf

Why aren't there more US ship builders? It seems like there ought to be room for a profitable business, given that they have a huge advantage enshrined in federal law.

lesuorac 2y ago

It sounds like there just aren't that many ships that need to be built. > [1] Looking at upcoming deliveries, 20 dredgers are expected to join the global fleet in 2021 [1]: https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/news-insights/research/dredging-industry-builds-smaller-vessels https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/news-insight...

uhhh_maks 2y ago
We do need some icebreakers though! https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-the-us-cant-build-icebreaking https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-the-us-cant-build...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

shrx 2y ago

Related discussion from last month: Why Can't the U.S. Build Ships? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41456073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41456073

foota 2y ago

I think it's a fairly inconsistent business, for one. I wonder also if state protectionism is at pay. Washington State for example until recently was only considering in state ship builders to replace the ferry fleet

pfdietz 2y ago
Is that constitutional?
- foota 2y ago
  I was asking myself this as I was writing it as well. I would assume that the State Government can choose to do what they will with regards to their own ferries, but that it would not be legal (interstate commerce) for them to require other companies in state to get their ships build in state.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    This appears to be how it works. The state has freedom if they are acting as just another market participant, but not if acting as a regulator.

fngjdflmdflg 2y ago

It's an extremely competitive industry that has seen government funding as part of the industrial policy of several east Asian countries. Right now even Korea, one of the largest shipbuilding countries, is having trouble competing with the Chinese shipbuilding industry: >However, despite these significant contracts [above], the Korean shipbuilding industry is facing a growing sense of crisis. According to industry sources on Oct. 3, out of the 191 container ships of 7000TEU (1TEU = one 20-foot container) or more ordered this year, China took 177, accounting for 92.7%. This shift has been particularly evident in recent large-scale container ship orders by global shipping companies, which have increasingly favored Chinese shipyards over Korean ones. >The industry assesses that China is gaining the trust of global shipowners by successfully carrying out projects with low prices and quick delivery times. In fact, it is reported that there is no longer a significant difference in delivery schedules between Korea and China.[0] To be clear, Korea is still a major player in shipbuilding (basically tied with China) and based on an article from last year[1] it seems that they focus more on other ships besides 7000TEU. It is probably impossible for the US to enter this market in any reasonable time frame and it would need government support like in Korea China and Japan. Even Japan, which was the largest player in the shipbuilding industry for decades has lost its marketshare to Korea and China. The costs saved by not being subject to the Jones Act probably don't make up for the cost of those ships. In 2013, US container ships costed 5 times as much as foreign ones, and it's probably more than that now.[2] Maintenance is another factor. [0] https://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=226283 https://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=... [1] https://www.kedglobal.com/shipping-shipbuilding/newsView/ked202404030012 https://www.kedglobal.com/shipping-shipbuilding/newsView/ked... [2] https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45725.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45725.pdf