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I dislike the "singled-out" aspect of it. If we're leaving Insta alone than it's pointless imho. Either bring the case properly with the big offenders or don't

I dislike the "singled-out" aspect of it. If we're leaving Insta alone than it's pointless imho. Either bring the case properly with the big offenders or don't bother. Dumping the TikTok audience into Insta & YT won't accomplish anything.

idle_zealot 2y ago
If this case succeeds it would establish strong precedent for going after the rest. If you want a world where this sort of attention hacking is illegal than this is an excellent start.
tombert 2y ago
I think the concern is TikTok's Chinese ownership. I don't really like the data collection of Instagram or YouTube either, but at least those are owned by US companies, and as such aren't centralized in a country we have an semi-adversarial relationship with.
- wahnfrieden 2y ago
  Why are you ok with state surveillance when you’re a resident?
  - tombert 2y ago
    I'm not ok with it (and said as much), but it's not equivalent to a foreign adversary surveilling us.
    - thatcat 2y ago
      Ok, so what about a foreign "ally"? Considering fb and google are known to have been compromised by israeli intelligence I'm not really sure there is practically much difference. https://www.mintpressnews.com/revealed-former-israeli-spies-working-top-jobs-google-facebook-amazon/282413/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/revealed-former-israeli-spies-... This seems like it is political and about removing chinese competition from american markets. The protecting American's privacy from foreign actors bit is pure rhetoric not likely to be applied to american companies in the same market even though there is similar exposure.
      - wahnfrieden 2y ago
        IDF also trains police forces across America on how to use the surveillance tech that’s been deployed to them
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- doe_eyes 2y ago
  That's a good argument in favor of the federal TikTok ban. This particular lawsuit isn't about that, though. It's about harming children, and it's quite similar to the recent New Mexico lawsuit against Snapchat. The geopolitical angle I can get behind. But these "failed to protect children" lawsuits are a lot more sprawling, authoritarian, and potentially damaging to the internet at large.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  This is a fine argument if you're a US citizen, but if you're a citizen of another country it's also a good argument to go after Instagram, Youtube, and all the rest. There's also the opposite argument that the Chinese government has little ability to influence your life and so surveillance by a US company is worse since there's a higher risk that the information gathered can be used against you.
  - tombert 2y ago
    I mostly agree, though I don't think the concern would be as much if TikTok were British or Canadian or French, since the US doesn't have an adversarial relation with them. The concern is that China, a country that we sort-of-kind-of have a problem with, surveilling and potentially influencing us.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > don't think the concern would be as much if TikTok were British or Canadian or French Under the TikTok ban bill, TikTok being sold to a Canadian or French owner would let them stay in American app stores.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> dislike the "singled-out" aspect of it. If we're leaving Insta alone We're not. Instagram was sued last year [1]. [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/people-of-the-...
eastbound 2y ago
Instagram is far too popular among voters. TikTok benefits from a bad reputation among parents, which will make the lawsuit popular.
reginald78 2y ago
TikTok has no real political allies in the US so it is vulnerable to a pile on attack that American tech giants (that commit the same sins) are not. This would make it easier to win a case against them and set a precedent that could be used to sue the American giants. It probably won't play out that way though since the whole political push isn't really about harming kids or addictive behaviors of social media, it's just about destroying an outside interloper that isn't part of the existing propaganda apparatus and competes with American tech giants.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > probably won't play out that way Do you revise your opinion in light of Instagram having been sued by a similar coalion of states for similar reasons last year [1]? [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/1/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/1/people-of-th...
  - reginald78 2y ago
    I answered the parent why I thought some one might pursue suing a weaker entity for the same sins as a more powerful one instead of going after the powerful one first as part of a logical strategy. And I also mused why I thought that wouldn't help in this case. This information suggests either they thought Instagram was weaker before or that they aren't pursuing a strategy that I don't think would work anyway. That doesn't change my opinion on the hypothetical strategy they might be pursuing.

idle_zealot 2y ago

If this case succeeds it would establish strong precedent for going after the rest. If you want a world where this sort of attention hacking is illegal than this is an excellent start.

tombert 2y ago

I think the concern is TikTok's Chinese ownership. I don't really like the data collection of Instagram or YouTube either, but at least those are owned by US companies, and as such aren't centralized in a country we have an semi-adversarial relationship with.

wahnfrieden 2y ago
Why are you ok with state surveillance when you’re a resident?
- tombert 2y ago
  I'm not ok with it (and said as much), but it's not equivalent to a foreign adversary surveilling us.
  - thatcat 2y ago
    Ok, so what about a foreign "ally"? Considering fb and google are known to have been compromised by israeli intelligence I'm not really sure there is practically much difference. https://www.mintpressnews.com/revealed-former-israeli-spies-working-top-jobs-google-facebook-amazon/282413/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/revealed-former-israeli-spies-... This seems like it is political and about removing chinese competition from american markets. The protecting American's privacy from foreign actors bit is pure rhetoric not likely to be applied to american companies in the same market even though there is similar exposure.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      IDF also trains police forces across America on how to use the surveillance tech that’s been deployed to them
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
doe_eyes 2y ago
That's a good argument in favor of the federal TikTok ban. This particular lawsuit isn't about that, though. It's about harming children, and it's quite similar to the recent New Mexico lawsuit against Snapchat. The geopolitical angle I can get behind. But these "failed to protect children" lawsuits are a lot more sprawling, authoritarian, and potentially damaging to the internet at large.
AlexandrB 2y ago
This is a fine argument if you're a US citizen, but if you're a citizen of another country it's also a good argument to go after Instagram, Youtube, and all the rest. There's also the opposite argument that the Chinese government has little ability to influence your life and so surveillance by a US company is worse since there's a higher risk that the information gathered can be used against you.
- tombert 2y ago
  I mostly agree, though I don't think the concern would be as much if TikTok were British or Canadian or French, since the US doesn't have an adversarial relation with them. The concern is that China, a country that we sort-of-kind-of have a problem with, surveilling and potentially influencing us.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > don't think the concern would be as much if TikTok were British or Canadian or French Under the TikTok ban bill, TikTok being sold to a Canadian or French owner would let them stay in American app stores.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> dislike the "singled-out" aspect of it. If we're leaving Insta alone We're not. Instagram was sued last year [1]. [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/people-of-the-...

eastbound 2y ago

Instagram is far too popular among voters. TikTok benefits from a bad reputation among parents, which will make the lawsuit popular.

reginald78 2y ago

TikTok has no real political allies in the US so it is vulnerable to a pile on attack that American tech giants (that commit the same sins) are not. This would make it easier to win a case against them and set a precedent that could be used to sue the American giants. It probably won't play out that way though since the whole political push isn't really about harming kids or addictive behaviors of social media, it's just about destroying an outside interloper that isn't part of the existing propaganda apparatus and competes with American tech giants.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> probably won't play out that way Do you revise your opinion in light of Instagram having been sued by a similar coalion of states for similar reasons last year [1]? [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/1/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/1/people-of-th...
- reginald78 2y ago
  I answered the parent why I thought some one might pursue suing a weaker entity for the same sins as a more powerful one instead of going after the powerful one first as part of a logical strategy. And I also mused why I thought that wouldn't help in this case. This information suggests either they thought Instagram was weaker before or that they aren't pursuing a strategy that I don't think would work anyway. That doesn't change my opinion on the hypothetical strategy they might be pursuing.