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Diet and exercise don't have negative side effects and they are free. Exercise is social too and has lots of side effect benefits beyond the obvious fitness one

Diet and exercise don't have negative side effects and they are free. Exercise is social too and has lots of side effect benefits beyond the obvious fitness ones

toomuchtodo 2y ago
If no one does them, their risk profile is immaterial. GLP-1s can be manufactured for $5/month. Cheaper than trying to coax the monkey brain into doing things you can't make it do. I cannot speak to the gene therapy cost; balance against lifetime cost of "Western disease" if not provided. Engineer for the way the world is, not the way we wish it was. From your comments, you appear to operate under the belief that people can free will their way to success ("The better option seems to be face the appetite head on rather than putting it on a temporal cage"). That is not what the evidence shows, and I wouldn't ask anyone with a brain chemistry imbalance or dysfunction to attempt to will the condition away when proven interventions are readily and inexpensively available. TLDR We are improving agency in humans using bioengineering, broadly speaking. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and... https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/php/data-research/adult-obesity-facts.html https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/php/data-research/adult-obesity-...
- bossyTeacher 2y ago
  I find your language usage curious. "trying to coax the monkey brain into doing things you can't make it do", "the way the world is", "people can free will their way to success", "anyone with a brain chemistry imbalance or dysfunction". You seem to imply that people have no self-control and are unable to power through difficulties. Because this is what is all about at the end of the day: self-control, one of the main things that separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom. It is the ability to regulate one's emotions, behaviors, and impulses in the face of temptations and urges. What your parents taught you, your teachers taught you all those years during compulsory education lies on a solid foundation of self-control. Civilisation as we know is built upon it. Depends on it. Yet your language implies that this is not the case. That humans are effectively, like toddlers, unable to use their self regulating powers to reign upon their emotions for the sake of a much better outcome in the long term. Fully unable to choose healthier foods or foods with lower calories. Fully unable to engage in free physical activities such as walking, jogging or running. Truly makes you wonder how civilisations exist at all. The idea that you can improve an individual's agency by having to temporarily disable a part of their brain is nonsensical. Surely, you can temporarily improve a specific decision making outcome (do I eat now?) by doing this. But you are not improving their agency anymore than you can by putting a gun on their head. In both cases, there is an external force temporarily suppressing a part of their normal decision making so they decide not to eat. The underlying problem: lack of self-control is still there. You just tackled a symptom. There are others (deciding not to engage in physical activity for example). A better solution would tackle the lack of self-control rather than some of the symptom. There is already some research on this area and some potential suggestions that if further investigated could help provide a better solution. But unfortunately, the solutions are virtually free and don't involve a lifetime subscription (could very well end up like diabetes medication which is arguably more critical for affected people yet with companies endlessly increasing the patents Disney style) to a drug.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Diet and exercise don't have negative side effects and they are free They're absolutely not free. They fail at a high rate, which incurs medical costs. And when they work, they require--in practice--a lot of follow-up and coaching. It's fairy-tale level mindblowing that we can look at the status quo where nearly half of the industrialised world is obese and get haughty about a drug that medically, demonstrably improves patient outcomes.
- bossyTeacher 2y ago
  Tell me how much does it cost to do push ups? How much does it cost to do squats? Failing at doing any of these does not incur medical costs. And yes, it takes effort and willpower (like anything worthwile in this life). But none of those cost money. It's fairy-tale level mindblowing that we can look at the status quo where nearly half of the industrialised world is obese and get haughty about a free method (see physical exercise) that medically, demonstrably improves patient outcomes with no negative side effects. That drug is the medical equivalent of a goldberg machine. Exercising your willpower will have more benefits than physical exercise alone: mental health, cardiovascular and strength fitness and you could go on. And it is free. No big farma making money from you
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    It takes time and induces brain fog for at least some time after exercise. There are other side effects too.
    - bossyTeacher 2y ago
      > It takes time and induces brain fog for at least some time after exercise Are you serious? How is "taking time" meaning that is not free? And you can't possible use that as a side effect. Brain fog is not even a common side effect. In fact, doing exercise is actually one of the recommended ways to tackle brain fog.
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  Obesity is primarily a US problem. It's not the same in Europe, where people walk a lot more, and where portion sizes are normal. A ham and cheese sandwich in the UK would have a slice of ham and of cheese. In the US a deli sandwich is a monstrosity with about 1/4 pound of meat in it.

Diet and exercise don't have negative side effects and they are free. Exercise is social too and has lots of side effect benefits beyond the obvious fitness ones

toomuchtodo 2y ago

If no one does them, their risk profile is immaterial. GLP-1s can be manufactured for $5/month. Cheaper than trying to coax the monkey brain into doing things you can't make it do. I cannot speak to the gene therapy cost; balance against lifetime cost of "Western disease" if not provided. Engineer for the way the world is, not the way we wish it was. From your comments, you appear to operate under the belief that people can free will their way to success ("The better option seems to be face the appetite head on rather than putting it on a temporal cage"). That is not what the evidence shows, and I wouldn't ask anyone with a brain chemistry imbalance or dysfunction to attempt to will the condition away when proven interventions are readily and inexpensively available. TLDR We are improving agency in humans using bioengineering, broadly speaking. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and... https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/php/data-research/adult-obesity-facts.html https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/php/data-research/adult-obesity-...

bossyTeacher 2y ago
I find your language usage curious. "trying to coax the monkey brain into doing things you can't make it do", "the way the world is", "people can free will their way to success", "anyone with a brain chemistry imbalance or dysfunction". You seem to imply that people have no self-control and are unable to power through difficulties. Because this is what is all about at the end of the day: self-control, one of the main things that separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom. It is the ability to regulate one's emotions, behaviors, and impulses in the face of temptations and urges. What your parents taught you, your teachers taught you all those years during compulsory education lies on a solid foundation of self-control. Civilisation as we know is built upon it. Depends on it. Yet your language implies that this is not the case. That humans are effectively, like toddlers, unable to use their self regulating powers to reign upon their emotions for the sake of a much better outcome in the long term. Fully unable to choose healthier foods or foods with lower calories. Fully unable to engage in free physical activities such as walking, jogging or running. Truly makes you wonder how civilisations exist at all. The idea that you can improve an individual's agency by having to temporarily disable a part of their brain is nonsensical. Surely, you can temporarily improve a specific decision making outcome (do I eat now?) by doing this. But you are not improving their agency anymore than you can by putting a gun on their head. In both cases, there is an external force temporarily suppressing a part of their normal decision making so they decide not to eat. The underlying problem: lack of self-control is still there. You just tackled a symptom. There are others (deciding not to engage in physical activity for example). A better solution would tackle the lack of self-control rather than some of the symptom. There is already some research on this area and some potential suggestions that if further investigated could help provide a better solution. But unfortunately, the solutions are virtually free and don't involve a lifetime subscription (could very well end up like diabetes medication which is arguably more critical for affected people yet with companies endlessly increasing the patents Disney style) to a drug.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Diet and exercise don't have negative side effects and they are free They're absolutely not free. They fail at a high rate, which incurs medical costs. And when they work, they require--in practice--a lot of follow-up and coaching. It's fairy-tale level mindblowing that we can look at the status quo where nearly half of the industrialised world is obese and get haughty about a drug that medically, demonstrably improves patient outcomes.

bossyTeacher 2y ago
Tell me how much does it cost to do push ups? How much does it cost to do squats? Failing at doing any of these does not incur medical costs. And yes, it takes effort and willpower (like anything worthwile in this life). But none of those cost money. It's fairy-tale level mindblowing that we can look at the status quo where nearly half of the industrialised world is obese and get haughty about a free method (see physical exercise) that medically, demonstrably improves patient outcomes with no negative side effects. That drug is the medical equivalent of a goldberg machine. Exercising your willpower will have more benefits than physical exercise alone: mental health, cardiovascular and strength fitness and you could go on. And it is free. No big farma making money from you
- lostmsu 2y ago
  It takes time and induces brain fog for at least some time after exercise. There are other side effects too.
  - bossyTeacher 2y ago
    > It takes time and induces brain fog for at least some time after exercise Are you serious? How is "taking time" meaning that is not free? And you can't possible use that as a side effect. Brain fog is not even a common side effect. In fact, doing exercise is actually one of the recommended ways to tackle brain fog.
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
Obesity is primarily a US problem. It's not the same in Europe, where people walk a lot more, and where portion sizes are normal. A ham and cheese sandwich in the UK would have a slice of ham and of cheese. In the US a deli sandwich is a monstrosity with about 1/4 pound of meat in it.