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You can sure make that argument, but it's still only a rephrasing of the millenia-old meme of old people complaining about the lack of respect in young people.
by 9dev 2y ago
You can sure make that argument, but it's still only a rephrasing of the millenia-old meme of old people complaining about the lack of respect in young people. No, young people are not in danger of being unable to become functional adults, no more than any generation before them (of which the same has been said).
Society changes, you're old, young people are doing things differently. The wheel keeps on turning.
- gjsman-1000 2y agoThis is actually a fairly ridiculous argument in my view - look at what happened to every country before ours. They failed. Why did they fail? Obviously, famine, wars, etc had a part; but as the saying goes: Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.
- shadowgovt 2y agoIt's a pat saying, but I don't think history bears it out. The German people after World War I were suffering. Significant reparation burdens had been placed upon them. They were starving and angry. These should have been the "hard times that create strong men," yes? It created the Nazis and they were defeated militarily. Seems something went off in step 2 there; nobody considers Germany during World War II "Good times."
- navane 2y agoFunctioning adults are paving the roads with good intentions.
- sxyuan 2y agoThis is a popular history cliche that isn't grounded in actual history. See, e.g., https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/ https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-... for an accessible critique by a professional historian. I do agree with your broader point though that it's worth asking if society is getting more illiberal and intolerant of opposing views. It's not just a "young people these days" kind of thing.
- Tyr42 2y agoOoh ooh, time to pitch the acoup for that https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/ https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-... That saying is ahistorical and Bret goes to great lengths to show where it fails.
- lcuff 2y ago"Hard times create strong men". At what age do the hard times start for this to be true? Do children who are victims of abuse become strong? Some perhaps, but I suspect not more than a control group. Do the hard times occur when the people are full adults? Anecdotally in my life, I've seen hard times be precursors to people cope by using drink and drugs, and seen hard times to lead other people to step up to the challenge. And what is the definition of strong, here? Seems so vague as to be pointless. This old saying seems like complete bunk to me.
- bigstrat2003 2y agoAgreed. Western society is very much in a pattern of decline right now. Whether it's terminal remains to be seen, but the decay is blindingly obvious imo.
- watwut 2y agoHard times create desperate men who make like hell to everyone else as they lash out. Good times are created by men who care. Good times create nice people. Fascists seen empathy and niceness as weakness and something bad. They were also something that emerged from hard times and created misery and pain. Lets not promote their ideology.
- bigstrat2003 2y agoAny time people bring this argument up I don't think they realize how much it can have the opposite effect of what they intend. I can see, with my own eyes, how much my generation (millennials) has fallen short compared to our parents. Let alone the zoomers etc, who seem to be on an even worse trajectory. When someone points out "people have made these claims for millennia", I don't take that as evidence I'm wrong - I realize that perhaps people have been right for millennia.