4 ms·

Are you seriously basing a whole argument on what the hello world program looks like? That has nothing to do with actual real world programs. Mixing logic & pre

Are you seriously basing a whole argument on what the hello world program looks like? That has nothing to do with actual real world programs. Mixing logic & presentation might make it easier to get something running quickly, but it's one of the downsides of PHP that these things get mixed up when they probably shouldn't for a project of reasonable size. The whole idea that it's an advantage of PHP that you can get something up and running so quickly is wrongheaded. Actually, it's much better if it requires some amount of thought and planning to code something up because that increases the likelihood that you'll do it right the first time and build on a solid foundation.

maratd 14y ago
> Actually, it's much better if it requires some amount of thought and planning to code something up because that increases the likelihood that you'll do it right the first time and build on a solid foundation. This is solid advice for an engineer. And absolutely moronic for a businessman. Choosing what platform to use is a business decision. If you take too long to get it right, you will never get the chance to make a dime off of your work. We are all working on limited time frames. It is far better to throw something together that works and rewrite later, when you're actually making money. PHP is amazing at letting you write something fast and rewrite it into something more manageable later.
- Splines 14y ago
  Plus, if you're trying to get new people to use your language, having a complex toolchain is going to scare them off. "Hey kid, first one's free"
- flatline3 14y ago
  > PHP is amazing at letting you write something fast and rewrite it into something more manageable later. From experience, the mountain of technical debt organizations acquire when starting with PHP can make it near impossible to rewrite it into something more manageable later, and it's a false dichotomy to claim PHP lets you write something fast while the alternatives do not.
wpietri 14y ago
That's true only if your audience is well-educated engineers with plenty of experience under their belts working on projects with substantial backing. Unfortunately, nobody starts out well-educated and experienced. And many projects start out small and grow. If you want to make your platform a broad success, you need to have a good experience for noobs and quickies. PHP is an abomination as languages go, but it's massively successful because any idiot can quickly get something basic up.

maratd 14y ago

> Actually, it's much better if it requires some amount of thought and planning to code something up because that increases the likelihood that you'll do it right the first time and build on a solid foundation. This is solid advice for an engineer. And absolutely moronic for a businessman. Choosing what platform to use is a business decision. If you take too long to get it right, you will never get the chance to make a dime off of your work. We are all working on limited time frames. It is far better to throw something together that works and rewrite later, when you're actually making money. PHP is amazing at letting you write something fast and rewrite it into something more manageable later.

Splines 14y ago
Plus, if you're trying to get new people to use your language, having a complex toolchain is going to scare them off. "Hey kid, first one's free"
flatline3 14y ago
> PHP is amazing at letting you write something fast and rewrite it into something more manageable later. From experience, the mountain of technical debt organizations acquire when starting with PHP can make it near impossible to rewrite it into something more manageable later, and it's a false dichotomy to claim PHP lets you write something fast while the alternatives do not.

wpietri 14y ago

That's true only if your audience is well-educated engineers with plenty of experience under their belts working on projects with substantial backing. Unfortunately, nobody starts out well-educated and experienced. And many projects start out small and grow. If you want to make your platform a broad success, you need to have a good experience for noobs and quickies. PHP is an abomination as languages go, but it's massively successful because any idiot can quickly get something basic up.