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It's not about energy density but availability. If a nation cannot buy uranium (scarce resources, embargo...) it loses at least temporarily its nuclear infrast

It's not about energy density but availability. If a nation cannot buy uranium (scarce resources, embargo...) it loses at least temporarily its nuclear infrastructure (and gasps for energy). This is not a real concern for renewables. > Nuclear is capturing strong and weak forces Other (way more practical and determinant) parameters are less enticing. For example: it 'burns' uranium and produces dangerous waste.

Moldoteck 2y ago
uranium can be stockpiled. Or like in japan/france - reprocessed & reenriched. It'll be more expensive but will cover most of temporary problems of uranium supply. For renewables - if you don't have local factories at scale and a steady supply of materials, incl for energy storage - the problem will be the same
- natmaka 2y ago
  > stockpiled Doing so may trigger a market tension. France reprocesses only part of its fuel, and only 1 time. > the problem will be the same Uh? An existing fleet of reactors is moot without uranium. An existing fleet of renewables just works (it only needs wind, sun, geothermal activity...)
  - Moldoteck 2y ago
    you need to gradually replace renewables, especially for a grid that was gradually deployed. You still can stockpile nuclear, France does have several years worth of fuel for such emergencies. France reprocesses only part of the fuel, is expanding Orano facility, but why is this relevant? They do it and they get additional un-enriched uranium stockpile. WTH dude? Are you just throwing random antinuclear statements around? Only in german forums i've seen such strong antinuclear opinions
    - natmaka 2y ago
      Most materials used by renewables are eternally (at human scale) reusable. In France recycling 95% of the sheer mass of a wind turbine is now mandatory ( https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eoliennes-terrestres-en-2024-95-de-la-masse-totale-des-aerogenerateurs-devra-etre-reutilisee-ou-recyclee.2294397 https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eolienne... ) > France does have several years worth of fuel Indeed, 'le stock stratégique', about 9 years at best (counting the average amount of uranium already present in reactors). 9 years at best for an overall of your gridpower production system... good luck with this!
      - Moldoteck 2y ago
        I mean... france really doesn't have a problem with n fuel... It's not just classic stockpiles but the reprocessed ones. Needless to say that imports are pretty diversified - even if one country will ban exports to France, they'll not face total ban from all partners, so in this regard they are indeed lucky.
        natmaka 2y ago
        France already encountered challenges: for 5 decades some there pretended that Niger will provide, then it abruptly became tricky ( https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kked7ydqyo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kked7ydqyo ). Some recycling operations (past contracts) involving Russia also had to be maintained during the current embargo. No major problem for now, indeed. However a war or a nuclear renaissance may abruptly lead to challenging conditions, if superpowers need more uranium.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    Uranium supply is not an issue at all, given that plenty of nations sell it, it is not rare mineral and can be found in abundance. and you need to replenish uranium fuel like once in 5 years - so this is not an issue at all for nuclear energy
    - natmaka 2y ago
      > Uranium supply is not an issue I disagree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783584 > you need to replenish uranium fuel like once in 5 years At best. Then, if you cannot obtain uranium, your reactor is just a pile of hot waste.
      - Moldoteck 2y ago
        Imo I find such statements like 100-150 years of supply similar to the statements about petroleum supply that was about to end and suddenly with demand, new supply was found, just like with other materials like lithium
        natmaka 2y ago
        This is a billion dollar bet, who wants to take it? No such risk with renewables.
slt2021 2y ago
>>If a nation cannot buy uranium (scarce resources, embargo...) not an issue at all, Canada, Australia, Kazakhstan, bunch of other nations mine and sell uranium. Whenever there are big mountain ranges, there is uranium. and it is cheap as a commodity
- natmaka 2y ago
  Current uranium reserves are sufficient, under current obtention conditions, for slightly over 130 years of supply. Nuclear now produces, worldwide, less than 10% of electricity (which is less than 2.2% of total final energy). Double the reactor fleet and each new one will only produce under current conditions for 60 years (in other words it will probably be quite difficult to finance). Canada and Australia pertain to the Anglosphere, therefore if nuclear enjoys a 'Renaissance' in the US they will provide uranium to their friends first, and will not provide it to any nation not aligned with the Anglosphere. For quite a bunch of nation Canada and Australia aren't dependable providers. Kazakhstan can be subdued by Russia (yeah, I know, their current stance is apparently defiant, however recent history is quite clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan%E2%80%93Russia_relations#2022_anti-government_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan%E2%80%93Russia_rela... ) or even China. Uzbekistan, also extracting uranium, stands in similar shoes. Who wants to have to beg Russia for uranium? Read on: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exclusive-us-utilities-push-white-house-not-sanction-russian-uranium-2022-03-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exclusive-us-utiliti... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/business/economy/russia-nuclear-energy-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/business/economy/russia-n... https://www.hydesmith.senate.gov/hyde-smith-questions-us-reliance-russian-uranium-fuel-nuclear-power https://www.hydesmith.senate.gov/hyde-smith-questions-us-rel... > bunch of other nations mine and sell uranium Not really. Niger, Namibia? China and Russia are more and more in control there. > Whenever there are big mountain ranges, there is uranium. and it is cheap as a commodity Not at all. Please source. In many places obtaining it is very difficult due to local conditions, ore grade... During the 'uranium bubble' (around 2007) prospection hugely intensified and raised a mere 15% new known and inferred reserves ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_bubble_of_2007#Impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_bubble_of_2007#Impact ). Who wants to bet billions on this?

Moldoteck 2y ago

uranium can be stockpiled. Or like in japan/france - reprocessed & reenriched. It'll be more expensive but will cover most of temporary problems of uranium supply. For renewables - if you don't have local factories at scale and a steady supply of materials, incl for energy storage - the problem will be the same

natmaka 2y ago
> stockpiled Doing so may trigger a market tension. France reprocesses only part of its fuel, and only 1 time. > the problem will be the same Uh? An existing fleet of reactors is moot without uranium. An existing fleet of renewables just works (it only needs wind, sun, geothermal activity...)
- Moldoteck 2y ago
  you need to gradually replace renewables, especially for a grid that was gradually deployed. You still can stockpile nuclear, France does have several years worth of fuel for such emergencies. France reprocesses only part of the fuel, is expanding Orano facility, but why is this relevant? They do it and they get additional un-enriched uranium stockpile. WTH dude? Are you just throwing random antinuclear statements around? Only in german forums i've seen such strong antinuclear opinions
  - natmaka 2y ago
    Most materials used by renewables are eternally (at human scale) reusable. In France recycling 95% of the sheer mass of a wind turbine is now mandatory ( https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eoliennes-terrestres-en-2024-95-de-la-masse-totale-des-aerogenerateurs-devra-etre-reutilisee-ou-recyclee.2294397 https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eolienne... ) > France does have several years worth of fuel Indeed, 'le stock stratégique', about 9 years at best (counting the average amount of uranium already present in reactors). 9 years at best for an overall of your gridpower production system... good luck with this!
    - Moldoteck 2y ago
      I mean... france really doesn't have a problem with n fuel... It's not just classic stockpiles but the reprocessed ones. Needless to say that imports are pretty diversified - even if one country will ban exports to France, they'll not face total ban from all partners, so in this regard they are indeed lucky.
      - natmaka 2y ago
        France already encountered challenges: for 5 decades some there pretended that Niger will provide, then it abruptly became tricky ( https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kked7ydqyo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kked7ydqyo ). Some recycling operations (past contracts) involving Russia also had to be maintained during the current embargo. No major problem for now, indeed. However a war or a nuclear renaissance may abruptly lead to challenging conditions, if superpowers need more uranium.
- slt2021 2y ago
  Uranium supply is not an issue at all, given that plenty of nations sell it, it is not rare mineral and can be found in abundance. and you need to replenish uranium fuel like once in 5 years - so this is not an issue at all for nuclear energy
  - natmaka 2y ago
    > Uranium supply is not an issue I disagree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783584 > you need to replenish uranium fuel like once in 5 years At best. Then, if you cannot obtain uranium, your reactor is just a pile of hot waste.
    - Moldoteck 2y ago
      Imo I find such statements like 100-150 years of supply similar to the statements about petroleum supply that was about to end and suddenly with demand, new supply was found, just like with other materials like lithium
      - natmaka 2y ago
        This is a billion dollar bet, who wants to take it? No such risk with renewables.

slt2021 2y ago

>>If a nation cannot buy uranium (scarce resources, embargo...) not an issue at all, Canada, Australia, Kazakhstan, bunch of other nations mine and sell uranium. Whenever there are big mountain ranges, there is uranium. and it is cheap as a commodity

natmaka 2y ago
Current uranium reserves are sufficient, under current obtention conditions, for slightly over 130 years of supply. Nuclear now produces, worldwide, less than 10% of electricity (which is less than 2.2% of total final energy). Double the reactor fleet and each new one will only produce under current conditions for 60 years (in other words it will probably be quite difficult to finance). Canada and Australia pertain to the Anglosphere, therefore if nuclear enjoys a 'Renaissance' in the US they will provide uranium to their friends first, and will not provide it to any nation not aligned with the Anglosphere. For quite a bunch of nation Canada and Australia aren't dependable providers. Kazakhstan can be subdued by Russia (yeah, I know, their current stance is apparently defiant, however recent history is quite clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan%E2%80%93Russia_relations#2022_anti-government_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan%E2%80%93Russia_rela... ) or even China. Uzbekistan, also extracting uranium, stands in similar shoes. Who wants to have to beg Russia for uranium? Read on: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exclusive-us-utilities-push-white-house-not-sanction-russian-uranium-2022-03-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exclusive-us-utiliti... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/business/economy/russia-nuclear-energy-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/business/economy/russia-n... https://www.hydesmith.senate.gov/hyde-smith-questions-us-reliance-russian-uranium-fuel-nuclear-power https://www.hydesmith.senate.gov/hyde-smith-questions-us-rel... > bunch of other nations mine and sell uranium Not really. Niger, Namibia? China and Russia are more and more in control there. > Whenever there are big mountain ranges, there is uranium. and it is cheap as a commodity Not at all. Please source. In many places obtaining it is very difficult due to local conditions, ore grade... During the 'uranium bubble' (around 2007) prospection hugely intensified and raised a mere 15% new known and inferred reserves ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_bubble_of_2007#Impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_bubble_of_2007#Impact ). Who wants to bet billions on this?