4 ms·

Let me use this moment to turn your attention to the superior successor of Thunderbirds...Terrahawks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaOQA-wcm2w https://www.yo

by hi_hi 2y ago

Let me use this moment to turn your attention to the superior successor of Thunderbirds...Terrahawks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaOQA-wcm2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaOQA-wcm2w The opening sequence 3D wireframe graphics were rendered on a cluster of prototype ZX Spectrums and were the inspiration for ILM's groundbreaking work on Tron.

aardvark179 2y ago
Not actually true. The title sequence was hand drawn, and the series didn’t even start filming until after Tron had come out.
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  Indeed, at it seems particularly unlikely when you consider that the absolute state of the art in the ZX Spectrum demoscene nearly fifty years on still isn't as high-resolution as Terrahawks' title sequence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJd6GtM5P9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJd6GtM5P9E By the way, there is an excellent orchestral rendition of the theme music by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, seemingly from a recording for the 'On Screen' album in 1986: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lEQFrl9bEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lEQFrl9bEE
- UncleSlacky 2y ago
  Yes, it looks similar to the Hitch-Hiker's Guide graphics from around the same time, they were cartoons.
  - fredoralive 2y ago
    Kevin Davies, who animated the opening and ending credits for Terrahawks (credited as "Video Game & Titles") was an assistant to Rod Lord when he was making the graphics for the TV version of Hitch-hiker's.
  - RichardCA 2y ago
    This was discussed a few weeks ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41509558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41509558
- alexjplant 2y ago
  More practical methods were fairly common during that period since they was actually cheaper and quicker than real computer graphics. The wireframe sequences in "Escape from New York", for instance, were actually miniatures with fluorescent paint applied to the edges.
  - steve1977 2y ago
    Even Tron had quite a bit of rotoscoping with a „computer look“, especially the scenes with human actors. Not shots like the lightcycle scene though, those were actual CGI.
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    Fun fact: That was one of James Cameron's first gigs.
teekert 2y ago
Never knew this series but little me (from the Netherlands, from 1982) would have loved this show, I certainly loved Thunderbirds (even though 50% of the show was the same TB launch sequence ;) ). I feel sad that I seem to have lost the capacity to experience the epicness of such series/films. Anyway, very cool that that Mars base is from 2020... It seemed so far way back then. The SciFi future with Mars bases and flying cars that never happened. We did get Smartphones though... What will humanity look like in 40 years? Unrecognizable probably.
nox101 2y ago
I actually loved the new series https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbirds-Are-Go-Season-1/dp/B086HVNK6M https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbirds-Are-Go-Season-1/dp/B086H... As well as being a huge fan of the originals
LightBug1 2y ago
Wow ... big part of my childhood ... those robot ball things! Weird how this seems largely forgotten
- GJim 2y ago
  According to Wikipedia, problems with broadcasting rights meant it wasn't really repeated after the original 1980's broadcasts. As an aside, it's hardly surprising our American cousins haven't heard of Terrahawks. I doubt the tongue in cheek humour (typified by 'robot ball' Sergeant Major Zero) would translate well!
  - RichardCA 2y ago
    You're talking about the generation that grew up with Monty Python and The Goodies. We were also familiar with the latex puppets because of Spitting Image and the Genesis "Land of Confusion" video. And the idea of a ball-shaped droid with a Cockney accent just seemed like a big miscalculation, unworthy of the Anderson legacy. But to be fair, if you go back and watch Space: 1999, most of the episodes aged poorly in retrospect except for one or two of them (e.g., Dragon's Domain still holds up).
    - GJim 2y ago
      > You're talking about the generation that grew up with Monty Python and The Goodies Yet would be entirely baffled at the concept of a British panto. > ball-shaped droid with a Cockney accent That my friend, was the voice of the one and only Windsor Davis, initiating his role as St Mjr from 'It ain't half hot mum'. Though I do recall a Scottish zeriod ("droid") and one with a French accent and handlebar moustache.
      - RichardCA 2y ago
        > Yet would be entirely baffled at the concept of a British panto. Monty Python, and in particular Terry Gilliam's animation style, were both heavily panto influenced. It was also a nerd rite-of-passage to watch Eraserhead which was directed by David Lynch, who then got to direct the Elephant Man. The panto scene at the end of Elephant Man is one of the few scenes in a movie that wrecks me every time I watch it. Unfortunately it gets scrubbed every time someone posts it online.
aejfghalsgjbae 2y ago
This was my show as a kid, the one my parents had to get us back home in time to watch or else much stroppiness would occur. I haven't heard it for many years, but the opening notes of the theme tune made me grin ear to ear.
xattt 2y ago
How was CGI output with enough scaling to look good on film, when the Spectrum only had composite output? Similarly, with early CGI like Tron, what was the render/target resolution for film?
- alexjplant 2y ago
  Not sure about Tron but here are a few details [1] about the Foonly F1 used on that film and how it was later used for Flight of the Navigator: > They had pushed for Triple-I to build the DFP, the first (that I know of) high-resolution digital film printer for motion pictures. This was the next generation PFR, using an 8" CRT which had fast-decaying phosphors so that it could be used for scanning in film (using photomultiplier tubes built into a special camera) as well as printing. The imagery was amazing > Since the Foonly only had enough disk storage to hold the frame being computed and the frame being printed, the numbers worked out like this: 30 seconds of film at 24 frames per second works out to 720 images each computed and printed at 6000 x 4000 pixels. [1] http://dave.zfxinc.net/f1.html http://dave.zfxinc.net/f1.html
- ahoka 2y ago
  The trick with Tron was that it was not CGI.
  - EvanAnderson 2y ago
    Tron was a mix of CGI and not-CGI. The not-CGI stuff, w/ all the photographic technique, was pretty wild. The CGI, in contrast, was not as wild. I believe this was the documentary I watched a couple of years ago re: the making of Tron that went into a lot of detail about the effects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbgHMrLPQrE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbgHMrLPQrE
steve1977 2y ago
The ZX Spectrum bit seems unlikely, considering that was a Z80 box and the quality of those graphics is pretty good. See the Terrahawks game on the Spectrum: https://youtu.be/diLez1bM3jo https://youtu.be/diLez1bM3jo Is there a source for this, that would actually be interesting.
- wyldfire 2y ago
  > the quality of those graphics is pretty good. IIUC grandparent post refers only to the sphere & ships projected into 2d stills, not all of the titles. A software wireframe renderer seems "easy" compared to modeling the ships. Even if it took a day to render each one, this was all done in the service of a pilot episode, so probably not a lot of pressure. They're on the screen so briefly before fading to the filmed miniature, I suppose it would easily hide most issues.
timdiggerm 2y ago
This is not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrahawks#Title_sequence_and_end_credits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrahawks#Title_sequence_and_...
msla 2y ago
People aren't getting the joke because nobody here realizes how essentially crappy the ZX Spectrum was. You'd do better to render it on a four-function calculator or, perhaps, an abacus.
- hi_hi 2y ago
  Thank you :-) Personally I thought the "cluster" part would cause most consternation, but apparently that part sounds legit :-)
raffraffraff 2y ago
Wow #1, I don't think I ever expected to read "cluster of prototype ZX Spectrums", even on Zombo.com where anything is possible. Wow #2, Terrahawks was in a box in the back of my mind for a long time. Don't think I ever actually watched, I just saw it, if you know what I mean. But I was about 7 when it came out so that makes sense. I remember the Zeroids more than I remember any of the characters.

by hi_hi 2y ago

aardvark179 2y ago

Not actually true. The title sequence was hand drawn, and the series didn’t even start filming until after Tron had come out.

seabass-labrax 2y ago
Indeed, at it seems particularly unlikely when you consider that the absolute state of the art in the ZX Spectrum demoscene nearly fifty years on still isn't as high-resolution as Terrahawks' title sequence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJd6GtM5P9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJd6GtM5P9E By the way, there is an excellent orchestral rendition of the theme music by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, seemingly from a recording for the 'On Screen' album in 1986: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lEQFrl9bEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lEQFrl9bEE
UncleSlacky 2y ago
Yes, it looks similar to the Hitch-Hiker's Guide graphics from around the same time, they were cartoons.
- fredoralive 2y ago
  Kevin Davies, who animated the opening and ending credits for Terrahawks (credited as "Video Game & Titles") was an assistant to Rod Lord when he was making the graphics for the TV version of Hitch-hiker's.
- RichardCA 2y ago
  This was discussed a few weeks ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41509558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41509558
alexjplant 2y ago
More practical methods were fairly common during that period since they was actually cheaper and quicker than real computer graphics. The wireframe sequences in "Escape from New York", for instance, were actually miniatures with fluorescent paint applied to the edges.
- steve1977 2y ago
  Even Tron had quite a bit of rotoscoping with a „computer look“, especially the scenes with human actors. Not shots like the lightcycle scene though, those were actual CGI.
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  Fun fact: That was one of James Cameron's first gigs.

teekert 2y ago

Never knew this series but little me (from the Netherlands, from 1982) would have loved this show, I certainly loved Thunderbirds (even though 50% of the show was the same TB launch sequence ;) ). I feel sad that I seem to have lost the capacity to experience the epicness of such series/films. Anyway, very cool that that Mars base is from 2020... It seemed so far way back then. The SciFi future with Mars bases and flying cars that never happened. We did get Smartphones though... What will humanity look like in 40 years? Unrecognizable probably.

nox101 2y ago

I actually loved the new series https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbirds-Are-Go-Season-1/dp/B086HVNK6M https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbirds-Are-Go-Season-1/dp/B086H... As well as being a huge fan of the originals

LightBug1 2y ago

Wow ... big part of my childhood ... those robot ball things! Weird how this seems largely forgotten

GJim 2y ago
According to Wikipedia, problems with broadcasting rights meant it wasn't really repeated after the original 1980's broadcasts. As an aside, it's hardly surprising our American cousins haven't heard of Terrahawks. I doubt the tongue in cheek humour (typified by 'robot ball' Sergeant Major Zero) would translate well!
- RichardCA 2y ago
  You're talking about the generation that grew up with Monty Python and The Goodies. We were also familiar with the latex puppets because of Spitting Image and the Genesis "Land of Confusion" video. And the idea of a ball-shaped droid with a Cockney accent just seemed like a big miscalculation, unworthy of the Anderson legacy. But to be fair, if you go back and watch Space: 1999, most of the episodes aged poorly in retrospect except for one or two of them (e.g., Dragon's Domain still holds up).
  - GJim 2y ago
    > You're talking about the generation that grew up with Monty Python and The Goodies Yet would be entirely baffled at the concept of a British panto. > ball-shaped droid with a Cockney accent That my friend, was the voice of the one and only Windsor Davis, initiating his role as St Mjr from 'It ain't half hot mum'. Though I do recall a Scottish zeriod ("droid") and one with a French accent and handlebar moustache.
    - RichardCA 2y ago
      > Yet would be entirely baffled at the concept of a British panto. Monty Python, and in particular Terry Gilliam's animation style, were both heavily panto influenced. It was also a nerd rite-of-passage to watch Eraserhead which was directed by David Lynch, who then got to direct the Elephant Man. The panto scene at the end of Elephant Man is one of the few scenes in a movie that wrecks me every time I watch it. Unfortunately it gets scrubbed every time someone posts it online.

aejfghalsgjbae 2y ago

This was my show as a kid, the one my parents had to get us back home in time to watch or else much stroppiness would occur. I haven't heard it for many years, but the opening notes of the theme tune made me grin ear to ear.

xattt 2y ago

How was CGI output with enough scaling to look good on film, when the Spectrum only had composite output? Similarly, with early CGI like Tron, what was the render/target resolution for film?

alexjplant 2y ago
Not sure about Tron but here are a few details [1] about the Foonly F1 used on that film and how it was later used for Flight of the Navigator: > They had pushed for Triple-I to build the DFP, the first (that I know of) high-resolution digital film printer for motion pictures. This was the next generation PFR, using an 8" CRT which had fast-decaying phosphors so that it could be used for scanning in film (using photomultiplier tubes built into a special camera) as well as printing. The imagery was amazing > Since the Foonly only had enough disk storage to hold the frame being computed and the frame being printed, the numbers worked out like this: 30 seconds of film at 24 frames per second works out to 720 images each computed and printed at 6000 x 4000 pixels. [1] http://dave.zfxinc.net/f1.html http://dave.zfxinc.net/f1.html
ahoka 2y ago
The trick with Tron was that it was not CGI.
- EvanAnderson 2y ago
  Tron was a mix of CGI and not-CGI. The not-CGI stuff, w/ all the photographic technique, was pretty wild. The CGI, in contrast, was not as wild. I believe this was the documentary I watched a couple of years ago re: the making of Tron that went into a lot of detail about the effects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbgHMrLPQrE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbgHMrLPQrE

steve1977 2y ago

The ZX Spectrum bit seems unlikely, considering that was a Z80 box and the quality of those graphics is pretty good. See the Terrahawks game on the Spectrum: https://youtu.be/diLez1bM3jo https://youtu.be/diLez1bM3jo Is there a source for this, that would actually be interesting.

wyldfire 2y ago
> the quality of those graphics is pretty good. IIUC grandparent post refers only to the sphere & ships projected into 2d stills, not all of the titles. A software wireframe renderer seems "easy" compared to modeling the ships. Even if it took a day to render each one, this was all done in the service of a pilot episode, so probably not a lot of pressure. They're on the screen so briefly before fading to the filmed miniature, I suppose it would easily hide most issues.

timdiggerm 2y ago

This is not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrahawks#Title_sequence_and_end_credits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrahawks#Title_sequence_and_...

msla 2y ago

People aren't getting the joke because nobody here realizes how essentially crappy the ZX Spectrum was. You'd do better to render it on a four-function calculator or, perhaps, an abacus.

hi_hi 2y ago
Thank you :-) Personally I thought the "cluster" part would cause most consternation, but apparently that part sounds legit :-)

raffraffraff 2y ago

Wow #1, I don't think I ever expected to read "cluster of prototype ZX Spectrums", even on Zombo.com where anything is possible. Wow #2, Terrahawks was in a box in the back of my mind for a long time. Don't think I ever actually watched, I just saw it, if you know what I mean. But I was about 7 when it came out so that makes sense. I remember the Zeroids more than I remember any of the characters.