4 ms·

> If we move to renewables, over 100 years there would be 0 reason to have a single nuclear plant running anywhere, apart from making nuclear weapons fuel. I ju

> If we move to renewables, over 100 years there would be 0 reason to have a single nuclear plant running anywhere, apart from making nuclear weapons fuel. I just wish we were now where we would/will be in 50 years in terms of renewables technology maturity and its spread. Of course if we ignore the need for batteries. Renewable advocates conveniently forget to include that in the calculus (there’s active action in progress to strip mine the ocean floor creating untold ecological damage to try to keep up with requirements for batteries). And they also tend to ignore the fact that renewables can’t be used in various industrial processes. Nuclear fission remains the best option for large scale power and is still cheaper than directly comparable renewables with batteries included despite being divested from raising overall costs. Hopefully we get fusion soon and renewables and fission become a thing of the past.

natmaka 2y ago
> need for batteries They are needed for transportation, whatever the way we produce electricity (even with nuclear). > renewables can’t be used in various industrial processes Why? There is no difference between nuclear-produced electricy and renewable-produced (or battery-stored)-electricy. > Hopefully we get fusion soon Does some optimistic scientist hope to enjoy an industrial prototype before 2050?
- vlovich123 2y ago
  In the renewables case they’re needed for transportation AND grid. The dream that car batteries are used as grid storage afaict remains a dream with no forward movement on that front.
  - natmaka 2y ago
    > In the renewables case they’re needed for transportation AND grid. Indeed. So? There are more and more vehicles, and the average amount of electricity they store (reflected by their autonomy) grows. One of the reasons is well-known: https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline > no forward movement This isn't true, many experiments are running ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid#Research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid#Research ) Even EDF, France's leader of the nuclear industry, field-experiments it: https://www.edf.fr/entreprises/transition-energetique/mobilite-electrique/v2g-vehicule-to-grid https://www.edf.fr/entreprises/transition-energetique/mobili...
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      The drawbacks section is pretty damming that this is unlikely to work: > JB Straubel, then chief technology officer of Tesla Inc, discounted V2G, claiming that battery wear outweighs economic benefit.[87] A 2017 study found decreasing capacity,[88][89] and a 2012 hybrid-EV study found minor benefit.[90] A 2015 study[91] found that economic analyses favorable to V2G failed to include many of the less obvious costs associated with its implementation. When these less obvious costs were included, the study reported that V2G was an economically inefficient solution.
      - natmaka 2y ago
        > Tesla ... didn't at the time (circa 2015) like V2G because it competed with its Powerwall project. This is a completely obsolete consideration: https://zecar.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-y-bidirectional-charging-v2g-and-v2h https://zecar.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-y-bidirectional-c... > decreasing capacity This is true. However this is to put in perspective with the financial impact: batteries are (from a technical viewpoint) more and more able to cope with this and charging during cheap electricity times then partially discharging when electricity is expensive will reduce the overall cost of the vehicle. > A 2015 study Obsolete.

natmaka 2y ago

> need for batteries They are needed for transportation, whatever the way we produce electricity (even with nuclear). > renewables can’t be used in various industrial processes Why? There is no difference between nuclear-produced electricy and renewable-produced (or battery-stored)-electricy. > Hopefully we get fusion soon Does some optimistic scientist hope to enjoy an industrial prototype before 2050?

vlovich123 2y ago
In the renewables case they’re needed for transportation AND grid. The dream that car batteries are used as grid storage afaict remains a dream with no forward movement on that front.
- natmaka 2y ago
  > In the renewables case they’re needed for transportation AND grid. Indeed. So? There are more and more vehicles, and the average amount of electricity they store (reflected by their autonomy) grows. One of the reasons is well-known: https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline > no forward movement This isn't true, many experiments are running ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid#Research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid#Research ) Even EDF, France's leader of the nuclear industry, field-experiments it: https://www.edf.fr/entreprises/transition-energetique/mobilite-electrique/v2g-vehicule-to-grid https://www.edf.fr/entreprises/transition-energetique/mobili...
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    The drawbacks section is pretty damming that this is unlikely to work: > JB Straubel, then chief technology officer of Tesla Inc, discounted V2G, claiming that battery wear outweighs economic benefit.[87] A 2017 study found decreasing capacity,[88][89] and a 2012 hybrid-EV study found minor benefit.[90] A 2015 study[91] found that economic analyses favorable to V2G failed to include many of the less obvious costs associated with its implementation. When these less obvious costs were included, the study reported that V2G was an economically inefficient solution.
    - natmaka 2y ago
      > Tesla ... didn't at the time (circa 2015) like V2G because it competed with its Powerwall project. This is a completely obsolete consideration: https://zecar.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-y-bidirectional-charging-v2g-and-v2h https://zecar.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-y-bidirectional-c... > decreasing capacity This is true. However this is to put in perspective with the financial impact: batteries are (from a technical viewpoint) more and more able to cope with this and charging during cheap electricity times then partially discharging when electricity is expensive will reduce the overall cost of the vehicle. > A 2015 study Obsolete.