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Any one power plant has no measurable effect on global climate. (All fossil power plants combined worldwide have about the same emissions as all cars; about 1/6

Any one power plant has no measurable effect on global climate. (All fossil power plants combined worldwide have about the same emissions as all cars; about 1/6). So, if your fathers started coal plants, you close them, stop paying for them and can forget about them. this is not at all the case if your fathers started nuclear plants, not only do you have to pay, your children have to pay, all their lives, and all your grandchildren, and so on. What bugs me is the tendency of proponents to pretend that the decision is no biggie. It is a biggie. At least understand that, then we can have a rational discussion about it! Energy storage solutions and infrastructure for generating synthesized fuels (hydrogen and others) will require investments, but those investments will be a gift to the future. We will bear the burden of building the infrastructure now, but future generations will benefit from what we have built. Nuclear is the opposite, we get the benefits and the future gets the burden.

pyrale 2y ago
So basically you’re so caught up in this infighting between two carbon neutral energies that you’d rather spread disinformation about climate change and the negative effects of coal…
- Kon5ole 2y ago
  I have spread no disinformation. Seems to me you fail to come up with arguments against what I actually said so instead you create a strawman. Nuclear costs are way higher than anyone has ever accounted for and they are kicked to future generations. This is a fact and we can do better. The right thing to do is surely to spend now on tech that continues to pay dividends in the future. Maybe we ourselves won't see the benefits directly in our wallets but the future will.
  - pyrale 2y ago
    > So, if your fathers started coal plants, you close them, stop paying for them and can forget about them. I suspect you don't live in e.g. Tuvalu? Or in a country experiencing desertification like Spain?
    - acdha 2y ago
      You misunderstood the point: yes, burning coal is bad. The argument is that once you stop doing that, it’s over. I don’t think that’s completely true - the impact of mining and ash won’t instantly disappear - but if the question is whether we should switch from one thing which has significant environmental hazards to another which poses significant risks or alternatives which do not, that past example suggests that we should be having that conversation about how realistic it is to assume that a multi-century mitigation effort will be effective. Coal is especially interesting as an example because we’ve seen how the mining side of it became a powerful political force where even people whose families were negatively impacted by the pollution still lobbied for its preservation. Nuclear would be smaller but still likely to have that factor to account for as we’ve seen with “temporary” storage becoming de facto permanent.
      - pyrale 2y ago
        > The argument is that once you stop doing that, it’s over. My issue is that this statement is wrong, though. All the greenhouse gas from coal that was burned in the past, and all the coal we're still burning, will still be around and is still going to slowly bake the planet we live on for the next millenia [1]. Effectively, coal emissions are only considered this way because, after we stop producing, we stop seeing the smokestacks and we forget that the byproducts are still there. This is also true for most other pollution sources: industrial sites with heavy metal pollution don't magically clean themselves when the factory closes. WW1 battle areas are still deeply polluted and some are still unfit for agriculture. "Eternal" chemicals are never going back to the oil well. And, for us technologists, ewaste does not magically disappear [2]. It's really maddening that some people develop an acute perception that radioactive waste is "forever", but somehow fail to understand that the same is true for a very large part of the waste we create now, for which nature hasn't (over millions of years) evolved organisms able to eat them. [1]: https://royalsociety.org/news-resources/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/ https://royalsociety.org/news-resources/projects/climate-cha... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41765334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41765334
        2y ago
vlovich123 2y ago
Only really true for gev iii reactors. Gen iv reactors don’t have any of the challenges you mention. It’s almost as if you don’t have any faith on the human race’s ability to creatively problem solve and are assuming nuclear technology needs to be stuck in time from designs of the 1960s.

pyrale 2y ago

So basically you’re so caught up in this infighting between two carbon neutral energies that you’d rather spread disinformation about climate change and the negative effects of coal…

Kon5ole 2y ago
I have spread no disinformation. Seems to me you fail to come up with arguments against what I actually said so instead you create a strawman. Nuclear costs are way higher than anyone has ever accounted for and they are kicked to future generations. This is a fact and we can do better. The right thing to do is surely to spend now on tech that continues to pay dividends in the future. Maybe we ourselves won't see the benefits directly in our wallets but the future will.
- pyrale 2y ago
  > So, if your fathers started coal plants, you close them, stop paying for them and can forget about them. I suspect you don't live in e.g. Tuvalu? Or in a country experiencing desertification like Spain?
  - acdha 2y ago
    You misunderstood the point: yes, burning coal is bad. The argument is that once you stop doing that, it’s over. I don’t think that’s completely true - the impact of mining and ash won’t instantly disappear - but if the question is whether we should switch from one thing which has significant environmental hazards to another which poses significant risks or alternatives which do not, that past example suggests that we should be having that conversation about how realistic it is to assume that a multi-century mitigation effort will be effective. Coal is especially interesting as an example because we’ve seen how the mining side of it became a powerful political force where even people whose families were negatively impacted by the pollution still lobbied for its preservation. Nuclear would be smaller but still likely to have that factor to account for as we’ve seen with “temporary” storage becoming de facto permanent.
    - pyrale 2y ago
      > The argument is that once you stop doing that, it’s over. My issue is that this statement is wrong, though. All the greenhouse gas from coal that was burned in the past, and all the coal we're still burning, will still be around and is still going to slowly bake the planet we live on for the next millenia [1]. Effectively, coal emissions are only considered this way because, after we stop producing, we stop seeing the smokestacks and we forget that the byproducts are still there. This is also true for most other pollution sources: industrial sites with heavy metal pollution don't magically clean themselves when the factory closes. WW1 battle areas are still deeply polluted and some are still unfit for agriculture. "Eternal" chemicals are never going back to the oil well. And, for us technologists, ewaste does not magically disappear [2]. It's really maddening that some people develop an acute perception that radioactive waste is "forever", but somehow fail to understand that the same is true for a very large part of the waste we create now, for which nature hasn't (over millions of years) evolved organisms able to eat them. [1]: https://royalsociety.org/news-resources/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/ https://royalsociety.org/news-resources/projects/climate-cha... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41765334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41765334
      - 2y ago

vlovich123 2y ago

Only really true for gev iii reactors. Gen iv reactors don’t have any of the challenges you mention. It’s almost as if you don’t have any faith on the human race’s ability to creatively problem solve and are assuming nuclear technology needs to be stuck in time from designs of the 1960s.