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Interesting. That reminded me of this book "Start-up Nation: The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle" which says their military runs the same procedure in a simi

by swah 14y ago

Interesting. That reminded me of this book "Start-up Nation: The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle" which says their military runs the same procedure in a similar way after missions.

Nimi 14y ago
As an Israeli, I can vouch for the massive ass-covering that goes on there. In fact, we just had a big public ass-covering demonstration regarding the awful flotilla blockade. Regardless of what one thinks of the political aspects and/or morality of that action, the purpose was to examine why were several soldiers injured and Israel's relationship with Turkey, previously a strategic ally, deteriorated. Both these results were seen as failures of the mission. The ass covering was plain for all to see, on the national news. I agree that the Israeli army has a very substantial contribution to the high level of entrepreneurship and technological achievement in the country, but effective organizational behavior is definitely not something you want to pick up from the IDF.
- anamax 14y ago
  > effective organizational behavior is definitely not something you want to pick up from the IDF. (1) The IDF is "ineffective" on an absolute scale. (2) The IDF is significantly more effective than most other organizations. While better isn't perfect, you can learn from both.
  - Nimi 14y ago
    Why do you claim that the IDF is more effective than other organizations?
    - ars 14y ago
      http://www.globalfirepower.com/ http://www.globalfirepower.com/ Compare that list to the population size of each country, Israel is a very large outlier. National will is important, but you don't rank on that list by being ineffective.
    - anamax 14y ago
      > Why do you claim that the IDF is more effective than other organizations? I didn't claim that the IDF was more effective than all organizations, I said that it was more effective than most. For example, I'd claim that the IDF is more effective than almost every failed startup.... (You can argue that many fail for reasons outside their control, but I'll respond that such vulnerabilities are a failure.)
  - Retric 14y ago
    It's also a lot easier for large organizations to examine issues of a less sensitive nature. AKA missile detonates in the middle of a field vs school.
run4yourlives 14y ago
Almost all armies do this, and they do it really, really well. As a veteran I can tell you that everything you do is critiqued, and everything your boss does is critiqued, and so on. At certain levels it's peer review, at others, hierarchtical. The whole point of it all is to increase your chances of survival. It's a great process, and I've noticed that most military folk are great at speaking plainly and accepting critique, much more so than civilians. I beleive these processes are a huge part of the reason.

by swah 14y ago

Interesting. That reminded me of this book "Start-up Nation: The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle" which says their military runs the same procedure in a similar way after missions.

Nimi 14y ago

As an Israeli, I can vouch for the massive ass-covering that goes on there. In fact, we just had a big public ass-covering demonstration regarding the awful flotilla blockade. Regardless of what one thinks of the political aspects and/or morality of that action, the purpose was to examine why were several soldiers injured and Israel's relationship with Turkey, previously a strategic ally, deteriorated. Both these results were seen as failures of the mission. The ass covering was plain for all to see, on the national news. I agree that the Israeli army has a very substantial contribution to the high level of entrepreneurship and technological achievement in the country, but effective organizational behavior is definitely not something you want to pick up from the IDF.

anamax 14y ago
> effective organizational behavior is definitely not something you want to pick up from the IDF. (1) The IDF is "ineffective" on an absolute scale. (2) The IDF is significantly more effective than most other organizations. While better isn't perfect, you can learn from both.
- Nimi 14y ago
  Why do you claim that the IDF is more effective than other organizations?
  - ars 14y ago
    http://www.globalfirepower.com/ http://www.globalfirepower.com/ Compare that list to the population size of each country, Israel is a very large outlier. National will is important, but you don't rank on that list by being ineffective.
  - anamax 14y ago
    > Why do you claim that the IDF is more effective than other organizations? I didn't claim that the IDF was more effective than all organizations, I said that it was more effective than most. For example, I'd claim that the IDF is more effective than almost every failed startup.... (You can argue that many fail for reasons outside their control, but I'll respond that such vulnerabilities are a failure.)
- Retric 14y ago
  It's also a lot easier for large organizations to examine issues of a less sensitive nature. AKA missile detonates in the middle of a field vs school.

run4yourlives 14y ago

Almost all armies do this, and they do it really, really well. As a veteran I can tell you that everything you do is critiqued, and everything your boss does is critiqued, and so on. At certain levels it's peer review, at others, hierarchtical. The whole point of it all is to increase your chances of survival. It's a great process, and I've noticed that most military folk are great at speaking plainly and accepting critique, much more so than civilians. I beleive these processes are a huge part of the reason.