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I mean, the review part I support. The revenue part is fucking horseshit.

by ToucanLoucan 2y ago

tencentshill 2y ago
What percentage do you think is fair to allow for a quality code review?
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  > percentage Already we're asking the wrong questions. A flat fee that may or may not be fair: $1000.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  None. Code review is about ensuring the user has a good experience, which Apple claims to value. Pay for it then with some of the absurd profits they've made off of me purchasing Macs and iOS devices regularly for the last decade or so.
whimsicalism 2y ago
I think it should all be circumventable. My phone, like my computer, should be able to install whatever code I damn well please.
- atrus 2y ago
  > My phone Maybe that's the assumption you need to change
  - weikju 2y ago
    Correct - but the assumption we need to challenge is the one from the makers of the phones and computers.
- ribosometronome 2y ago
  The idea that we aren't allowed to sell limited purpose electronics seems pretty novel. A lot of the things I own have processors in them nowadays, are you suggesting the courts should require them all to create methodologies for us to run our own code on them?
  - Spivak 2y ago
    Stallman literally buzzing with excitement at the prospect. Honestly if you're gonna go, you should probably go all the way in the manner you describe and level the playing field for everyone.
  - tadfisher 2y ago
    What is the downside for the consumer here? Put all the scary warnings in front that you want, just have a "developer mode" toggle that unlocks the bootloader and lets us run arbitrary code. There's a huge reverse-engineering hurdle to get over anyway, this just stops the cat-and-mouse game of having to find exploits to run code on your device.
    - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
      > What is the downside for the consumer here? Destroying their products and flooding customer support with dozens of stupid "I know what I'm doing and your stupid machine stopped working, your product sucks! I want a free replacement" type tickets. Don't get me wrong, I'd like very much to have the ability to do that. But it doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of good reasons, not even consumer hostile, to not let people muck about in firmware. To be honest, and this is purely fantasy, but I would absolutely love some kind of "I am a techie" registration process that would: - Let me access functions like customizing firmware - Always elevate my support tickets to tier 2 (yes I turned the fucking thing off and on again, if I'm calling you I have a REAL problem) - Always ensure I get the "grown up" interface for settings and customization
  - wiseowise 2y ago
    > A lot of the things I own have processors in them nowadays, are you suggesting the courts should require them all to create methodologies for us to run our own code on them? Don't play coy here, you understood what he/she said.
- throw16180339 2y ago
  If you want Android, you know where you can find it.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    I might switch now that Apple has been forced to embrace RCS - but the blue bubble lockout for younger people is/was unfortunately very real.
    - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
      People say this as though teens and tweens aren't just going to find something else to latch onto immediately to bully the fuck out of one another. I never dealt with the "blue bubble" thing but it's not like I wasn't mercilessly bullied for basically my entire education about everything else you could possibly think of past the fourth grade. I'm all for tackling bullying, I think it's fucking heinous the kinds of things schools let happen under their watch, but let's not kid ourselves that Apple opening up iMessage is going to do a fucking thing about this.
  - heavyset_go 2y ago
    If you don't want to install apps outside of the App Store, you don't have to. If other iPhone users want to install their own apps without jumping through absurd hoops, let them instead of telling them what they can and can't do with the hardware they own.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
The review is very TBD for me. If they really do just check for viruses that's fine. But if it's basically the App store rules without the App store, or we get "we don't like your app" cases like Beeper than this basically ruins the point of an alternative app store. The Apple cut is also absurd but I'm sure that will be rectified sooner rather than later.
NotPractical 2y ago
The review part is much more concerning IMO and completely exiles FOSS from the platform (free as in the GNU definition -- you should be able to make arbitrary changes to your copy of the app without some asshole from Apple telling you that they believe your changes constitute a joke or prank [1]). The review part also re-enforces the revenue part because it costs $100/year to submit apps for EU notarization. [1] Section 1.1.6: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

I mean, the review part I support. The revenue part is fucking horseshit.

tencentshill 2y ago

What percentage do you think is fair to allow for a quality code review?

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
> percentage Already we're asking the wrong questions. A flat fee that may or may not be fair: $1000.
ToucanLoucan 2y ago
None. Code review is about ensuring the user has a good experience, which Apple claims to value. Pay for it then with some of the absurd profits they've made off of me purchasing Macs and iOS devices regularly for the last decade or so.

whimsicalism 2y ago

I think it should all be circumventable. My phone, like my computer, should be able to install whatever code I damn well please.

atrus 2y ago
> My phone Maybe that's the assumption you need to change
- weikju 2y ago
  Correct - but the assumption we need to challenge is the one from the makers of the phones and computers.
ribosometronome 2y ago
The idea that we aren't allowed to sell limited purpose electronics seems pretty novel. A lot of the things I own have processors in them nowadays, are you suggesting the courts should require them all to create methodologies for us to run our own code on them?
- Spivak 2y ago
  Stallman literally buzzing with excitement at the prospect. Honestly if you're gonna go, you should probably go all the way in the manner you describe and level the playing field for everyone.
- tadfisher 2y ago
  What is the downside for the consumer here? Put all the scary warnings in front that you want, just have a "developer mode" toggle that unlocks the bootloader and lets us run arbitrary code. There's a huge reverse-engineering hurdle to get over anyway, this just stops the cat-and-mouse game of having to find exploits to run code on your device.
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    > What is the downside for the consumer here? Destroying their products and flooding customer support with dozens of stupid "I know what I'm doing and your stupid machine stopped working, your product sucks! I want a free replacement" type tickets. Don't get me wrong, I'd like very much to have the ability to do that. But it doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of good reasons, not even consumer hostile, to not let people muck about in firmware. To be honest, and this is purely fantasy, but I would absolutely love some kind of "I am a techie" registration process that would: - Let me access functions like customizing firmware - Always elevate my support tickets to tier 2 (yes I turned the fucking thing off and on again, if I'm calling you I have a REAL problem) - Always ensure I get the "grown up" interface for settings and customization
- wiseowise 2y ago
  > A lot of the things I own have processors in them nowadays, are you suggesting the courts should require them all to create methodologies for us to run our own code on them? Don't play coy here, you understood what he/she said.
throw16180339 2y ago
If you want Android, you know where you can find it.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  I might switch now that Apple has been forced to embrace RCS - but the blue bubble lockout for younger people is/was unfortunately very real.
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    People say this as though teens and tweens aren't just going to find something else to latch onto immediately to bully the fuck out of one another. I never dealt with the "blue bubble" thing but it's not like I wasn't mercilessly bullied for basically my entire education about everything else you could possibly think of past the fourth grade. I'm all for tackling bullying, I think it's fucking heinous the kinds of things schools let happen under their watch, but let's not kid ourselves that Apple opening up iMessage is going to do a fucking thing about this.
- heavyset_go 2y ago
  If you don't want to install apps outside of the App Store, you don't have to. If other iPhone users want to install their own apps without jumping through absurd hoops, let them instead of telling them what they can and can't do with the hardware they own.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

The review is very TBD for me. If they really do just check for viruses that's fine. But if it's basically the App store rules without the App store, or we get "we don't like your app" cases like Beeper than this basically ruins the point of an alternative app store. The Apple cut is also absurd but I'm sure that will be rectified sooner rather than later.

NotPractical 2y ago

The review part is much more concerning IMO and completely exiles FOSS from the platform (free as in the GNU definition -- you should be able to make arbitrary changes to your copy of the app without some asshole from Apple telling you that they believe your changes constitute a joke or prank [1]). The review part also re-enforces the revenue part because it costs $100/year to submit apps for EU notarization. [1] Section 1.1.6: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/