5 ms·

nuclear fuel: nuclear rods can last about 3-7 years, lets say 5 on avg. 150 rods per 1 GW reactor. so its like one or two rail cars of fuel - extremely compact

by slt2021 2y ago

nuclear fuel: nuclear rods can last about 3-7 years, lets say 5 on avg. 150 rods per 1 GW reactor. so its like one or two rail cars of fuel - extremely compact footprint. how calculate yourself how much fossil fuel you need to power 1 GW power plant for half a decade, and how much CO2 emissions will you generate? How many rail cars of coal Germany will need to generate 1 GW 24/7/365 for 5 years reliably ? it is just unfair comparison, nuclear is several orders magnitude better in all aspects compared to fossil fuel and renewable - just due to physics of the process. Nuclear is capturing strong and weak forces, while combustion is capturing electromagnetic force with piss poor thermal efficiency and losses abound. The only reason countries fumble nuclear energy is because they dont invest enough into new designs and constructions and still employ old design plants. If there was as much investment into new nuclear plants as it was in renewable tech - we would have solved many of our energy needs long long time ago.

7952 2y ago
So for nuclear power to be successful you just have to change human nature and politics to secure long term investment. And do so in countries that cannot even figure out how to properly fund education.
- slt2021 2y ago
  the fact that we allowed non-technical people with liberal arts education, who have no concept of physics and energy, to make nuclear a political issue is a big failure. Plus oil rich countries lobbying LNG as a greener alternative for nuclear is another fail
  - 7952 2y ago
    But it is not within your gift to control human nature or suppress politics. Or at least I hope its not. A good design/proposal/plan considers human factors. And energy production is not some science experiment where you can control all the baseline conditions. It exists within a complex mix of economy, environment, social system, manufacturing etc. There is no scientific method for navigating that. And your industry will probably ignore it if there was. Politics is all we have for deciding complex interrelated questions.
- chickenbig 2y ago
  > you just have to change human nature and politics to secure long term investment Perhaps it will take generational change (and stopping the propagation of anti-nuclear tropes). Perhaps it will take societal selection (where those who invest will out-compete the others).
visarga 2y ago
Technically, solar is also nuclear.
- slt2021 2y ago
  photovoltaic elements inside solar panel rely on photoelectric effect, which is electromagnetic force. It cannot be weak/strong force
  - dumah 2y ago
    The joke is that Sol is a gravitationally confined thermonuclear reactor.
  - visarga 2y ago
    on the production side :)
natmaka 2y ago
It's not about energy density but availability. If a nation cannot buy uranium (scarce resources, embargo...) it loses at least temporarily its nuclear infrastructure (and gasps for energy). This is not a real concern for renewables. > Nuclear is capturing strong and weak forces Other (way more practical and determinant) parameters are less enticing. For example: it 'burns' uranium and produces dangerous waste.
- Moldoteck 2y ago
  uranium can be stockpiled. Or like in japan/france - reprocessed & reenriched. It'll be more expensive but will cover most of temporary problems of uranium supply. For renewables - if you don't have local factories at scale and a steady supply of materials, incl for energy storage - the problem will be the same
  - natmaka 2y ago
    > stockpiled Doing so may trigger a market tension. France reprocesses only part of its fuel, and only 1 time. > the problem will be the same Uh? An existing fleet of reactors is moot without uranium. An existing fleet of renewables just works (it only needs wind, sun, geothermal activity...)
    - Moldoteck 2y ago
      you need to gradually replace renewables, especially for a grid that was gradually deployed. You still can stockpile nuclear, France does have several years worth of fuel for such emergencies. France reprocesses only part of the fuel, is expanding Orano facility, but why is this relevant? They do it and they get additional un-enriched uranium stockpile. WTH dude? Are you just throwing random antinuclear statements around? Only in german forums i've seen such strong antinuclear opinions
      - natmaka 2y ago
        Most materials used by renewables are eternally (at human scale) reusable. In France recycling 95% of the sheer mass of a wind turbine is now mandatory ( https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eoliennes-terrestres-en-2024-95-de-la-masse-totale-des-aerogenerateurs-devra-etre-reutilisee-ou-recyclee.2294397 https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eolienne... ) > France does have several years worth of fuel Indeed, 'le stock stratégique', about 9 years at best (counting the average amount of uranium already present in reactors). 9 years at best for an overall of your gridpower production system... good luck with this!

7952 2y ago

So for nuclear power to be successful you just have to change human nature and politics to secure long term investment. And do so in countries that cannot even figure out how to properly fund education.

slt2021 2y ago
the fact that we allowed non-technical people with liberal arts education, who have no concept of physics and energy, to make nuclear a political issue is a big failure. Plus oil rich countries lobbying LNG as a greener alternative for nuclear is another fail
- 7952 2y ago
  But it is not within your gift to control human nature or suppress politics. Or at least I hope its not. A good design/proposal/plan considers human factors. And energy production is not some science experiment where you can control all the baseline conditions. It exists within a complex mix of economy, environment, social system, manufacturing etc. There is no scientific method for navigating that. And your industry will probably ignore it if there was. Politics is all we have for deciding complex interrelated questions.
chickenbig 2y ago
> you just have to change human nature and politics to secure long term investment Perhaps it will take generational change (and stopping the propagation of anti-nuclear tropes). Perhaps it will take societal selection (where those who invest will out-compete the others).

visarga 2y ago

Technically, solar is also nuclear.

slt2021 2y ago
photovoltaic elements inside solar panel rely on photoelectric effect, which is electromagnetic force. It cannot be weak/strong force
- dumah 2y ago
  The joke is that Sol is a gravitationally confined thermonuclear reactor.
- visarga 2y ago
  on the production side :)

natmaka 2y ago

It's not about energy density but availability. If a nation cannot buy uranium (scarce resources, embargo...) it loses at least temporarily its nuclear infrastructure (and gasps for energy). This is not a real concern for renewables. > Nuclear is capturing strong and weak forces Other (way more practical and determinant) parameters are less enticing. For example: it 'burns' uranium and produces dangerous waste.

Moldoteck 2y ago
uranium can be stockpiled. Or like in japan/france - reprocessed & reenriched. It'll be more expensive but will cover most of temporary problems of uranium supply. For renewables - if you don't have local factories at scale and a steady supply of materials, incl for energy storage - the problem will be the same
- natmaka 2y ago
  > stockpiled Doing so may trigger a market tension. France reprocesses only part of its fuel, and only 1 time. > the problem will be the same Uh? An existing fleet of reactors is moot without uranium. An existing fleet of renewables just works (it only needs wind, sun, geothermal activity...)
  - Moldoteck 2y ago
    you need to gradually replace renewables, especially for a grid that was gradually deployed. You still can stockpile nuclear, France does have several years worth of fuel for such emergencies. France reprocesses only part of the fuel, is expanding Orano facility, but why is this relevant? They do it and they get additional un-enriched uranium stockpile. WTH dude? Are you just throwing random antinuclear statements around? Only in german forums i've seen such strong antinuclear opinions
    - natmaka 2y ago
      Most materials used by renewables are eternally (at human scale) reusable. In France recycling 95% of the sheer mass of a wind turbine is now mandatory ( https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eoliennes-terrestres-en-2024-95-de-la-masse-totale-des-aerogenerateurs-devra-etre-reutilisee-ou-recyclee.2294397 https://www.lemoniteur.fr/article/demantelement-des-eolienne... ) > France does have several years worth of fuel Indeed, 'le stock stratégique', about 9 years at best (counting the average amount of uranium already present in reactors). 9 years at best for an overall of your gridpower production system... good luck with this!